Vf LAG

Discussions on the fortifications & artillery used by the Axis forces.
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myt1prod
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Vf LAG

Postby myt1prod » 29 Oct 2014 19:42

Hello,

We discussed this bunkertype already in several topics, but up till now there is no specific topic related to this bunkertype.
I'd like to make plans and 3D models of every Vf LAG that ever existed, or still exists, in order to be able to compare them with each other.

The first one I'm trying to recreate is one of the two Vf LAG of the Stp. Detlev (Malo-les-Bains, Dunkerque, AOK 15 KVA B). This one can be considered as a SondernKonstruction amongst the Vf LAG bunkers. It's a combination of the Vf LAG design with a Baustärke B possible SK construction.

At first I did so souly based on the plan with measurements in the book "Mythe ou réalité" by Chazette. Next to the fact that there are very few measurements given in the book which doesn't make it easy to recreate the bunker, I quickly noticed that the measurements given contain errors. In a second attempt, of which the temporary result below, I based my 3D model on avery detailled IGN.fr 1948 aerial in combination with the standardmeasurements for about every known Vf LAG and where needed falling back on the measurements given in the book by Chazette. (Btw; this is no negative critic on the book, just mentioning my finds and 'modus operandi')

... this gives this plan;

Vf LAG Detlev bis.jpg


this plan still contains errors, but I guess i'm pretty close to the original... Therefore I'm asking you if anyone can provide me with aditional information on this specific Vf LAG, additional (correct) measurements and with some luck some photomaterial could help me out a lot.

You'll also notice I placed a PAK 7,5cm canon in the bunker, which was the canontype used in both Vf LAG of the Stp. Detlev according to "Mythe ou réalité". The model is on the same scale as the bunker and created by ben D. at SketchUp warehouse.
If this was in fact the canon used in this bunker, I think the bunker provided very little protection against frontal enemy fire as the opening of the Scharte leaves to much open space around the shield of the canon. What do you think or know on the subject??

Which I find strange is that the walls and roof of the LAG-part of the bunker measure not more than 70cm... So we can not call this one a 'Vf' LAG then? But just 'LAG'-bunker?

The other part of the bunker has walls variating between 2,23cm and 2,65cm (that is if the inside measurements given by Chazette's book are correct). For the roof I have no measurements, but logically they would be in relation to the with of the walls and as the aerial shows a much more pronounced shadow for this part of the bunker it is shure that it is higher than the rooflevel of the LAG-part of the bunker... so for my model I chose a roof of 2m thick concrete.

Anyone any idea on the artillery used in this Baustärke B-part of the bunker? The Scharte had to be imense and a very impressive sight! My idea is that a heavy machinegun would be operated in here? (I tried to install a festungsPAK 4,7cm - my original thought - but there is just no space enough :cry: )

All in all... a very strange combination, yet a very nice and impressive bunker.

Thanks ahead
Jean
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moonraker
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Re: Vf LAG

Postby moonraker » 29 Oct 2014 21:31

hi jean,

we all measures,of memory the roof is 1 mèter in the vf LAG.
This is vf lag
because the serie VF 0.40m at 1.0m and no ventil for the gaz of guns.
there is also in some sector 1.5m

AvB
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Re: Vf LAG

Postby AvB » 19 Mar 2015 21:39

One of several same types of LAG bunkers at the beach of Zoutelande according to BRV?
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dirk Peeters
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Re: Vf LAG

Postby dirk Peeters » 01 Jul 2016 11:27

00 knokke.jpg
just found in Knokke one of these VF LAG in 40 cm thick concrete instead of 1 meter
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pierrot
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Re: Vf LAG

Postby pierrot » 02 Jul 2016 04:50

Hey Dirk,

2 of them were also build inside the Stp Wrangel in St-Idesbald/De Panne: One still exists (see my plan), the other one destroyed in 1955 (see plan of demolition contractor). They have walls of 60cm.

PNO-A3-VIII-A7.jpg

MOW-71811(15).JPG


Gr.

Pierrot
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dirk Peeters
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Re: Vf LAG

Postby dirk Peeters » 02 Jul 2016 09:16

so even here there are different thickness
Maybe we can do a list of these also?
15 KVA B
2 x StP Eduard
1 x StP Luise
1 x StP Leo
1 x StP Leo (not sure of this one it is really a variant without Tobruk so shall we add or not ?)
1 x StP Brunhilde (not sure of this one it is really a variant without Tobruk so shall we add or not ?)
1 x StP Bernard
1 x StP Beate (variant)
1 x StP August
1 x StP Anna
2 x StP Detlev

i m sure i forgot some
I ll check later
Dirk

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moonraker
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Re: Vf LAG

Postby moonraker » 02 Jul 2016 09:21

hello pierrot

seem be the similaire type of the base,but insert the tobruk is vf8. :wink:

Me belfra-team
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dirk Peeters
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Re: Vf LAG

Postby dirk Peeters » 02 Jul 2016 09:30

maybe two series
the germans have one without Tobruk on the german plan and a model with Tobruk , also on the general german plan
the ringstand (as far i i measured them ( we only measured 9 altogheter) is sometimes a Bf 58c but like etienne said it seems some are Vf8
one is of an unidentified type Tobruk

Dirk
Last edited by dirk Peeters on 02 Jul 2016 09:48, edited 1 time in total.

dirk Peeters
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Re: Vf LAG

Postby dirk Peeters » 02 Jul 2016 09:45

error of me
It seems most are Tobruks Vf8
i will search further

new list
15 KVA A1
X x Zoutelande (which StP ? )
15 KVA A3
2 x StP Wrangel

15 KVA B
2 x StP Eduard
1 x StP Luise
1 x StP Leo
1 x StP Leo (not sure of this one it is really a variant without Tobruk so shall we add or not ?)
1 x StP Brunhilde (not sure of this one it is really a variant without Tobruk so shall we add or not ?)
1 x StP Bernard
1 x StP Beate (variant)
1 x StP August
1 x StP Anna
2 x StP Detlev

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myt1prod
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Re: Vf LAG

Postby myt1prod » 02 Jul 2016 20:37

Hello,

some additions;

15 KVA A1
X x Zoutelande (which StP ? )
15 KVA A3
2 x StP Wrangel
1 x StP Von Rundstedt

15 KVA B
2 x StP Eduard
1 x StP Luise
1 x StP Leo
1 x StP Leo (not sure of this one it is really a variant without Tobruk so shall we add or not ?)
1 x StP Brunhilde (not sure of this one it is really a variant without Tobruk so shall we add or not ?)
1 x StP Bernard
1 x StP Beate (variant)
1 x StP Adolf
1 x StP August
1 x StP Anna
2 x StP Detlev


The one at Stp Adolf had the ringstand on the frontside and seems to have a double ammostorage opposit the ringstand (other side of the Kampfraum) .... AND it also had an enlarged backside with a sideways entrance !! 8O

Vf LAG Stp Adolf.jpg
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dirk Peeters
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Re: Vf LAG

Postby dirk Peeters » 03 Jul 2016 07:06

Adolf looks also a modified one , but heavily modified
Thanks Jean
nice list

jopaerya
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Re: Vf LAG

Postby jopaerya » 03 Jul 2016 07:53

For Holland A1 2 x in Stp. Lohengrin ( Zoutelande ) and also a VF schartenstand in the Sudwall .
Also a few in A 2 Belgium .

Regards Jos

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myt1prod
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Re: Vf LAG

Postby myt1prod » 03 Jul 2016 09:05

found 3 more of them
1 in between - where used to be - fort Mardyck and Stp Furth (perhaps even Furth itself or one of the smaller strongholds here (as the entire terrain has changed due to the expansion of the harbour it's hard to pin-point without doing a large overlay of the region)

2 x StP Dorian
>>> both have the ringstand one one side of the Kampfraum and a single ammo storage on the other side of the Kampfraum

pierrot
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Re: Vf LAG

Postby pierrot » 03 Jul 2016 18:17

Hello everybody,

For Belgium:
1 x WN Tobruk, Knokke
2 x Stp Roon, Middelkerke
2 x Stp Wrangel, De Panne
1 x Stp von Rundstedt

Gr.

Pierrot

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Re: Vf LAG

Postby pierrot » 03 Jul 2016 22:13

and one more in KVA2 Stp Gneisenau, KVA2 Nieuwvliet

K184.jpg


Gr.

Pierrot
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