Panther Bodenturm

Discussions on the fortifications & artillery used by the Axis forces.
jopaerya
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Re: Panther Bodenturm

Postby jopaerya » 31 Jan 2017 16:16

Thanks you all , nice to see these photo's from Küstrin :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Regards Jos

Lars Bertelsen
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Re: Panther Bodenturm

Postby Lars Bertelsen » 31 Jan 2017 23:05

Thanks Andrzej and forttravel
. . Der Turm mit gelbsandfarbenem Anstrich wurde auf einem starken Holzgestell, das unten als Schlitten ausgebildet war, antransportiert. .
So, the wooden structure on the first photo is simply a huge sled for Pantherturm transportation. That explains why those diagonal beams are so big. And it seems that there were at least two of those sleds in Küstrin.
The report from Küstrin mentions five emplaced Panthertürme, but only three of them seem to be well documented. According to official German sources, three Pantherturmstände were ready for action and one was under construction at Küstrin at 02.03.1945, and the rest oft he 12 turrets were damaged or lost.
Greetings Lars
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Andrzej Ditrich
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Re: Panther Bodenturm

Postby Andrzej Ditrich » 01 Feb 2017 07:58

On the photo of another turret (posted by Forttravel) from Kustrin it stands on such construction.
It looks like solid ad-hoc built wooden frame stand for turret to leave it on it before attaching on combat shelter.
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Lars Bertelsen
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Re: Panther Bodenturm

Postby Lars Bertelsen » 01 Feb 2017 23:20

Hello Andrzej
On the photo of another turret (posted by Forttravel) from Kustrin it stands on such construction.
It looks like solid ad-hoc built wooden frame stand for turret to leave it on it before attaching on combat shelter.
yes it is for sure the same type of construction (transportation sled) as the one shown on your first photo. And in the foreground an unfinished Holzstand für Pantherturm.
The standard type of Holzstand für Pantherturm (Zeichnung Nr. 1315) was 2.84 m high. The external walls were stabilized with four diagonal crosses (see attached drawing). Two of the crosses had “full height”, and the two remaining diagonal crosses had “reduced height” because of the entrance door and the ammo niches.
It seems, that the Holzstand on the photo has got at least three “reduced height” diagonal crosses. This may indicate that this particular Holzstand is a “low-profile type” shelter (1.10 m high).
By the way, it might seem that the official German list is not 100 % correct. According to the list, 3 turrets were emplaced and one was being installed by 02.03.1945, and “restliche 8 Geräte fallen wegen Feindeinwirkung aus”. But the photos show at least 2 (intact?) uninstalled turrets.
Greetings Lars
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herring
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Re: Panther Bodenturm

Postby herring » 02 Feb 2017 21:54

Frame looks similar - from our neighbouring Ron Klages Panzer forum - this time Slovenia!
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Andrzej Ditrich
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Re: Panther Bodenturm

Postby Andrzej Ditrich » 02 Feb 2017 21:57

Nice photo-tnx for posting it here.
So we know it is kind of stand for transport purposes to protect lower structure of truret.
I think it was "attached" to the turret between factory and frontline emplacement.

herring
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Re: Panther Bodenturm

Postby herring » 02 Feb 2017 22:00

Sorry - correction - source is missing lynx/ axis

jopaerya
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Re: Panther Bodenturm

Postby jopaerya » 02 Feb 2017 22:28

Hello Lars

In Panzer Tracts No.21-2 the drawing Nr. 1315 was from the Inspektorat de Landesbefestigung West is that correct ??

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Lars Bertelsen
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Re: Panther Bodenturm

Postby Lars Bertelsen » 03 Feb 2017 00:00

Hello Jos
In Panzer Tracts No.21-2 the drawing Nr. 1315 was from the Inspektorat de Landesbefestigung West is that correct ??
yes that is correct. Please see attachments.
(drawing from BAMA, text document from NARA).
greetings Lars
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jopaerya
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Re: Panther Bodenturm

Postby jopaerya » 03 Feb 2017 08:53

Great Information

Nice to see how the drawings from the Inspekt.d. Landesb.. West ended up in the East . :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Regards Jos

jopaerya
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Re: Panther Bodenturm

Postby jopaerya » 17 Mar 2017 21:32

From Ebay
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forttravel
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Re: Panther Bodenturm

Postby forttravel » 13 May 2017 22:05

Frankfurt (Oder) again. From germandocsinrussia web site.
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Lars Bertelsen
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Re: Panther Bodenturm

Postby Lars Bertelsen » 16 May 2017 21:53

Hello forttravel
Very nice, thanks for sharing. The drawing shows a “Benzinmotor” (so I think, my Russian is a bit rusty :-D ), but only one ammo niche. This may indicate, that this Holzbunker was build after Drawing Nr. 1315 (2,84 meter high, with space for motor).
According to German source dated 03.02.1945 (please see attachment in my post dated 03.02.2017), the 12 Holzbunker at Frankfurt/Oder were planned to be build after Drawing Nr. 827 (2,70 meter high, without space for motor), but the Drawing Nr. 1315 was handed over to the Festungskommandantur Frankfurt/Oder at 01.02.1945. No bunkers had been build yet at that time.
Seems by the way, that the drawer has mixed up the bunker stove and the motor for turret traverse?
Greetings Lars

forttravel
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Re: Panther Bodenturm

Postby forttravel » 23 Jun 2017 17:22

Back to Italy...
Turret with upper part of pillbox structure no. 122A. On right side visible bottom pillbox part 122D. Note different camouflage pattern.
Source: http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205207266
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Natter
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Re: Panther Bodenturm

Postby Natter » 24 Jun 2017 23:20

Two anlagen from O.K.H. Teknische Anordnungen Nr. 3 für den Ausbau gem. Führerbefehl Nr. 10 - OT-Stahlunterstände mit aufgesetztem Pantherturm (1943):
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