Bttr Malo Terminus (Zuydcote)

Discussions on the fortifications, artillery, & rockets used by the Axis forces.
User avatar
der bunkermann
Member
Posts: 1591
Joined: 18 May 2006, 17:27
Location: stp. gr. scheveningen holland
Contact:

Re: Bttr Malo Terminus (Zuydcote)

#31

Post by der bunkermann » 20 Aug 2016, 01:30

In holland ( Scheveningen)wooden stairs were also used in a leitstand..

User avatar
Bunkerfreak
Member
Posts: 1300
Joined: 16 Sep 2012, 19:45
Location: Antwerpen

Re: Bttr Malo Terminus (Zuydcote)

#32

Post by Bunkerfreak » 20 Aug 2016, 09:16

The 134 on the eastern border of Malo Terminus (photos from the internet)

Anyone know the function of that cellar?

Wardaddy
Attachments
134 -- 42 -- 12 06 2005 BFA (19).JPG
134 -- 42 -- 12 06 2005 BFA (16).JPG
134 -- 42 -- 12 06 2005 BFA (10).JPG
134 -- 42 -- 12 06 2005 BFA (7).JPG
134 -- 42 -- 12 06 2005 BFA (2).JPG


User avatar
myt1prod
Member
Posts: 1130
Joined: 14 Jul 2012, 16:18

Re: Bttr Malo Terminus (Zuydcote)

#33

Post by myt1prod » 20 Aug 2016, 09:26

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... e#p1827452

there should be a second topic also about these cellars in 134

User avatar
Bunkerfreak
Member
Posts: 1300
Joined: 16 Sep 2012, 19:45
Location: Antwerpen

Re: Bttr Malo Terminus (Zuydcote)

#34

Post by Bunkerfreak » 20 Aug 2016, 12:12

Aha, it is for waterstorage then?

User avatar
myt1prod
Member
Posts: 1130
Joined: 14 Jul 2012, 16:18

Re: Bttr Malo Terminus (Zuydcote)

#35

Post by myt1prod » 20 Aug 2016, 13:17

that's a possibillity ... but this far it isn't confirmed that they were actually used for waterstorage
(the bunker at Oye plage, who also has these cellars, is equiped with 2 holes across the doorway of each of these pits... these holes could have been used in function of these cellars; in case of waterstorage, the waterpipes could leave the bunker through these holes... but possibly even fuelpipes or electriccables could run through these holes...

User avatar
TH
Member
Posts: 768
Joined: 09 Mar 2007, 00:34
Location: Germany

Re: Bttr Malo Terminus (Zuydcote)

#36

Post by TH » 20 Aug 2016, 15:57

myt1prod wrote:another indication this bunker wasn't entirely finished... missing stairs.
There are no indications climingirons were present, clearly no concrete or brick stairs either... only possibillity left is a wooden staircase laying on the concrete slope... otherwise it would have been very difficult (as nowadays) for the personel to get up the second floor observationroom
The M 162a at Agger Tange has no stairs either (I remember because I banged my head when sliding down :milsmile: ).
Wooden stairs are a reasonable explanation.

User avatar
myt1prod
Member
Posts: 1130
Joined: 14 Jul 2012, 16:18

Re: Bttr Malo Terminus (Zuydcote)

#37

Post by myt1prod » 20 Aug 2016, 21:05

These few steps didn't use up that much concrete....
so I find it strange that the Germans didn't just poor the stairs in concrete together with the rest of the bunker... there must be a reason the stairs to the second level were made out of wood, while the other staircase leading from the mainroom to the first observationlevel is poored in concrete.

User avatar
Bunkerfreak
Member
Posts: 1300
Joined: 16 Sep 2012, 19:45
Location: Antwerpen

Re: Bttr Malo Terminus (Zuydcote)

#38

Post by Bunkerfreak » 21 Aug 2016, 08:17

If you look into that shaft, it is pretty steep. i think it wasnt possible to pour such a steep concrete stair, but instead they used a wooden ladder. You also don't see any remains or atachment-points in the concrete for a decent wooden construction. so i bet it was just a wooden ladder?

User avatar
Bunkerfreak
Member
Posts: 1300
Joined: 16 Sep 2012, 19:45
Location: Antwerpen

Re: Bttr Malo Terminus (Zuydcote)

#39

Post by Bunkerfreak » 21 Aug 2016, 08:19

001.JPG
002.JPG
003.JPG

User avatar
myt1prod
Member
Posts: 1130
Joined: 14 Jul 2012, 16:18

Re: Bttr Malo Terminus (Zuydcote)

#40

Post by myt1prod » 21 Aug 2016, 09:33

you could be right about the slope being too steep to fit a regular conrete or wooden staircase and thus possibly a wooden ladder was used. The cutout in the top floor level (where the floor is lowered) must have been to make the slope less steep

User avatar
myt1prod
Member
Posts: 1130
Joined: 14 Jul 2012, 16:18

Re: Bttr Malo Terminus (Zuydcote)

#41

Post by myt1prod » 12 Sep 2016, 11:37

if just noticed that the bunker with the strange niche that is built side by side on to the M162a is probably French and dating back to the original layout of the French fort or at least to date of the 1920 aerial... on both pre-WW2 aerials a structure can be seen resembling the nowadays lay-out on the exact same spot. So possibly the Germans left it untouched and built the M162a alongside the already present and perhaps usefull storage like bunker. It would also answer the question why there is no passage connecting both bunkers as they are built on too each other. If it is indeed of French origin it would be safe to say that this was an ammostorage bunker due to it's positioning in the middle of two OB's. On the 1920 aerial we can see there used to be a second similar bunker standing in the middle of the two other OB's

User avatar
myt1prod
Member
Posts: 1130
Joined: 14 Jul 2012, 16:18

Re: Bttr Malo Terminus (Zuydcote)

#42

Post by myt1prod » 12 Sep 2016, 11:59

Another structure which I wonder about and has some hidden features;

just outside the main part of the stronghold lays a large OB supposably for FlaK... if seen serveral mentionings that it is French and was part of the Fort, but the 1920 aerial shows it wasn't there already and the 1937 is to blurry but seems to show no trace of it either; of course it could still have been built shortly before WW2 breaking out... but I'm more convinced that it is German.

Here some views on the 3D model I did...
As the structure is entirely sanded and only the top parts stick out I could only take exact heightmeasurements for the top part of the OB and the rooflevels of the brick structures... all other heights are drawn with some logic thinking and should be quite close to the actual situation. But in this case heights are only a small detail... it's more about the structure being French or German and... WHAT is hidden downstairs???

IGN arials show that once the intact structure looked like this
FlaK OB mit mannschaftunterkunft 1.jpg
nowadays (as I measured it) it looks like this (and indeed traces can be found that show it used to be a bit larger before);
FlaK OB mit mannschaftunterkunft 2.jpg
the OB has an oddly placed ammostorage...
the inside rooflevels goes down, but measurements prove it is impossible that the stairs leading into this ammostorage would lead even further underground (so no hidden underground structure or entrance/exit to the underground bunker on this side... in case you are wondering... as I did)
FlaK OB mit mannschaftunterkunft 3.jpg
When looking from underneath we see there is quite some room for a mediumsize bunker hidden under the structure... the stairs leading down and the possitioning of the chimney several metres away from where the stairs are proof this!! How I would like to know what's hidden under there??
FlaK OB mit mannschaftunterkunft 44.jpg
did anyone ever payed some interest in this structure and could tell something more about it? Or did someone ever accessed it when it was less sanded as nowadays? I'd love to learn more about this structure (perhaps we should dig it up...)

User avatar
myt1prod
Member
Posts: 1130
Joined: 14 Jul 2012, 16:18

Re: Bttr Malo Terminus (Zuydcote)

#43

Post by myt1prod » 12 Sep 2016, 12:35

The reason that i'm more convinced it is German is because it matches up with the plan of the German defences set up in and around the fort as seen on page 1 of this topic. Even the German road leading up to this FlaK OB can still be partially seen today and IGN aerials show the exact trajectory as seen on the plan.

The map also shows there where 4 other FlaK-guns installed on the landside around the fort (their supposed locations marked in red on the GEaerial, but nothing to see on the available IGNaerials..; but as the first clear post war aerials for the region date back to 1957 it's difficult to say if something was ever there)... I wonder if these other 4 FlaKpositions had similar OB's?... and if there are still traces to be found?

(for the location of the lower right red dot some brick remains can be found and if I recall well a larger structure should be hidden there under the bushes)
locations FlaK1.jpg
locations FlaK2.jpg
locations FlaK2.jpg (261.04 KiB) Viewed 457 times

CNOCK
Member
Posts: 1205
Joined: 08 May 2005, 17:06
Location: BELGIUM

Re: Bttr Malo Terminus (Zuydcote)

#44

Post by CNOCK » 12 Sep 2016, 20:23

Hi Jean,

I always thought was German OB with Vf shelter for 4 cm Flak

some pics from 1993
Attachments
001.jpg

CNOCK
Member
Posts: 1205
Joined: 08 May 2005, 17:06
Location: BELGIUM

Re: Bttr Malo Terminus (Zuydcote)

#45

Post by CNOCK » 12 Sep 2016, 20:24

inside OB shelter, had 3 rooms

Cnock
Attachments
002.jpg

Post Reply

Return to “Fortifications, Artillery, & Rockets”