Baupunkt 14 in Festung Hoek van Holland

[hannibal2]

Erwin thank you for the photo. I'm attaching some of my own courtesy of the Atlantik Museum that show the position of the gun within the bunker, as well as a view of the beach the gun would have been covering.
Gert

[AvB]

It's a bit misleading there's a Pak 40 inside the museum because originally there wasn't one. First it was light howitzer. Later the embrasure was made smaller and they installed a 5cm KwK.

There're two Pak bunkers nearby. (type 625B). It could be one of those two bunkers. Although later in the war there was a Russian 7.62cm Pak gun.

Having done some intensive research on the subject lately, I now feel reasonably certain that I have found the exact location of my Dad's gun. Believe it or not, but It's none other than the bunker in which the Atlantikwall Museum in Hoek van Holland is housed today! On German maps of the times, it shows up as Wn 17. The strongest point to support my theory is the fact that this bunker was within walking distance of the dwellings of non-evacuated Dutch civilian families with one of whom my Dad was billeted. This would have been impossible at other Pak 40 locations such as Stp XIX at Staelduinse Bos. The Museum actually contains a Pak 40 which can be viewed by visitors. It is not the original gun, but a refurbished one from a garage somewhere that was moved to the Museum some time ago. By the way, my father's gun never fired a shot in earnest at landing enemy tanks coming in from the beach because, fortunately for all concerned, none were coming!

[hannibal2]

Erwin thank you much for the photo. I'm attaching some of my own courtesy of the Atlantikwall-Museum that show the position of the gun inside the bunker, plus a view of the beach which the gun would have been covering.
Gert

[dirk Peeters]

any help ?

[hannibal2]

AvB thanks for your input. You just blew my theory, didn't you? But could you be more specific as to the two Pak bunkers you mention? They would have to be part of a Widerstandsnest, right? Do you know what Wn number they have, and where exactly within the township of Hoek van Holland they are located?
Gert

[hannibal2]

Dirk thanks for your input. Unfortunately, the drawing isn't much of a help. There is no indication of the location of the bunker complex other than being described as Wn, a Widerstandsnest, to be sure. But what number pray, that is the question!
Gert

[Peter de Krom]

Hi Gert,

What a wonderful surprise to find this discussion...! I'm very curious about the stories you're father must have told you about his stay in Hoek van Holland, especially about returning in the 60's to the family (do you have a name?). But first of al, how nice to meet you Gert. I'm Peter, born and raised in Hoek van Holland and I even worked at the Atlantikwall Museum for about 16 years. There is no doubt that I (and others here) have set foot in the same bunker you're father did.

First:
There where 2 Pak 40 guns stationed in Baupunkt 14, both in the 625b's up until at least march '44. They where later replaced with 7,62 Russian guns and again some time later with 10 cm Czech FH 14 field guns. Apparently there was a switch of guns between all the 625's in the Festung and a Artillery battery (1.AR 1719 oft Stp. V). There is a good chance you're father worked on all guns.

Can I ask: Did you're father told you which gun he worked on or is something you found in a document?
You also mentioned a Pak 40 in Stp. XIX the Staelduinse Bos. Where did you find this info?

The 611 of the AW museum never had a 7,5 cm Pak. It had a 7,5 cm Polish field gun (with original scharte) and later 5 cm K.w.K. (smaller scharte) It's a shame that the museum has both original guns of the 625 and 611 but their switched around.

Now the best part. There are some pictures of the solders of one of the 625's that had the Pak 40. These photo's are from after march '44 though, with the Russian 7,62. It would be a wonderful coincidence if we can actually spot you're father..?

01.jpg (69.52 KiB) Viewed 1213 times

02.jpg (72.72 KiB) Viewed 1213 times

This is the 625 in the corner of the Anti-tank wall next to the Nieuwe Waterweg. There is also a good chance you're father was in the other 625 next to the Badweg, this was the first bunker of the Atlantikwall Museum.
For me this is very interesting. I have spend a lot of time in this bunker since 1996 when it became a museum, always wondering if a day would come that a old veteran would knock on the door. This never happened though. But this is just as interesting.

Cheers, Peter

[hannibal2]

Hi Peter,

Thank you very much for your enthusiastic and informative message. It's really nice to meet someone like yourself who has his own special interest in the issues discussed in this thread. Now as to your questions:

1.) I'm sorry but I don't have the name or address of the family my father was billeted with.

2.)To the best of my recollection, he always referred to his gun as a Pak 40. It's been some time since we last talked; he died in 1978.

3.) Regarding a Pak 40 at Stp XIX, I simply cannot recall the exact source of that information from among the many other sources I have consulted.

The photos are great. Too bad but my father is not on any of them. The men shown are enlisted men plus an Obergefreiter (corporal). My father however was an Unteroffizier (sergeant). Regrettably, I myself have no photos of him from his time in Festung HvH.

By the way, what is actually the location of Baupunkt 14?

Regards, Gert

P.S. Not to be too personal: My English wife's mother was Dutch-born, een mooi meisje from Alkmaar which, incidentally, also had a German garrison during the war.

[Peter de Krom]

Hi Gert,

Thank you as well for you're quick and friendly response. It's such a interesting situation: searching you're fathers history and ending up at a forum like this. This is exactly one of the things there forums are made for.

Taking in to count that you're father was a sergeant may be the reason why he stayed with a family in stead of with his fellow men in the bunker. Did you're father ever told you about the view he had. Of maybe about the time he spend with his fellow soldiers (in a bunker)?

What a wonderful coincidence it would have been if you could have spotted your father... These men may have known him though.

Baupunkt 14 was quite a interesting set of defence works: Kommandostand Marine Artillerie Abteilung 205, Marine Kuste Batterie (4 x 15 cm), a Panzermauer (1500 meters) with flanking gun bunkers (Heer) and a Marine Flak Batterie. If you're father was operating a Pak 40 in a 625 it was one of the two in the picture below:

Also some pictures of the 625's. The one most south (from the pictures in my previous post) is covered in sand. It has also been struck by the great flood of 1953 and lies slightly tipped. Here it broke the Panzermauer in several pieces. In the living quarters you can still find some musical notes.

Current locations of the 625:
Number 1405: https://goo.gl/maps/UZnzDrhEdRs
Number 1406: https://goo.gl/maps/CSwJi7UJcRt

[hannibal2]

Hi Peter, thanks again for your input, especially the map that shows all the bunkers in the Hoek van Holland area that lists them by number, type of bunker, and purpose. Most interesting to me are nos. 1445 and 1446. Both are tagged as Regelbau 612 bunkers. According to my sources, a Type 612 is a Geschutzbunker specifically designed to accommodate a 7,5 cm or 10,5 cm caliber gun, as for example a Pak 40, with no annexes like crew quarters which are indicated on the map as Uk (=Unterkunft). Since there are only two 612s on the list, both of them within walking-distance of civilian residences, it would seem logical to conclude that one of them is the one in which my father's Pak 40 was installed. But which one? If I had the name and address of the Dutch family with whom he was billeted in the village, that likely could provide the answer, but even then it would be difficult if not impossible. I hate to say it, but I fear there will never be a final resolution of the issue, like that of the true identity of Guy Sajer (I tend to believe he was a fake). However, if anyone has any other ideas or suggestions, I would be most grateful.
Cheers, Gert

[Peter de Krom]

Hi Gert,

I'm afraid I forgot a very important piece of the map. The Panzermauer and 625's were on a separate part. See below.

The 612 bunkers were equipped with 7,5 cm Belgian Field Guns. The 625 bunkers are really the only bunkers in Bp. 14 that could have housed pak 40's in the time you're father was there. There were only 4 of them in the entire Festung (at least in February '44). 3 of them in 625's (also one in Wn. 45), the other one most likely in a 601 or 680. Within two months after February '44 the 3 that were in the 625's were shipped away and replaced with 7.62 Russian guns.

There is also even video a the Pak 40 in the 625. See a screenshot attached.

I'm still quite certain you're father must have been in one of the 625's... Did you find the number Baupunkt 14 in the Soldbuch? Because it was also mainly occupied by the 4./723 Grenadiers Regiment.

Cheers, Peter

[AvB]

Yes Gert it would be interesting if you have your father's documents from the Deutsche Dienststelle (WASt) from Berlin or more info from his Soldbuch. The dates and earlier and later units he served could be of help in finding out where he was staying.
There was a Pak zug near the Staelduinse Bos.

[hannibal2]

Hi Peter,

Thanks again for the additional info but, sorry to say, it doesn't help much and only serves to confuse and complicate the matter at hand, at least to my mind. O.k., so I was wrong about the Type 612 bunkers. You say there were four Type 625 bunkers in the entire Festung. Your latest map lists two of them, both numbered 1406. However, it also lists three other Pak-Scharten of the Type 625 numbered 1402, 1403 and 1404 which, as the hand-written annotation on the map indicates, were supposed to be located in the Panzermauer. That means we now have to consider a total of 7 bunkers that conceivably could have housed a Pak 40. You also say there were only four Pak 40s in the entire Festung which would lead one to conclude that three of these bunkers contained Beutewaffen such as the Belgian and Russian guns you mention. But which of the seven held Pak 40s and, most importantly, that of my father's? I would venture to say regretfully that given this situation there will never be a definitive answer to that very question. So let's now lay this old war dog to rest and say no more!

I don't have the Soldbuch, only the picture I found in one of my deceased mother's photo albums which looked to me like a Soldbuch photo. Also, I had already deduced earlier from a German document showing the dispersal of 719. Infanteriedivision as of 1 July 1943 (see attachment) that my father's unit must have been 4. Kompanie/I. Batallion/Grenadierregiment 723. That company was responsible for the defense of the triangle formed by the Panzermauer, the beach just north of the Nordmole, and a stretch of the northern shoreline of the Nieuwe Waterweg.

Cheers, Gert

[Peter de Krom]

Hi Gert,

I'm sorry to confuse you even more, but I'm afraid you've probably misread the map (did you open it full size). It says 3 x 631 (with 4,7 Festungspak), 600 (with 5cm KwK), 2 x 625 (1405 and 1406, not both 1406) and a 653b (with 5cm KwK). So just 2 x 625, both equipped with a Pak 40.

I'm quite sure about my findings because of the research on the Pak 40's I did years ago when the AW museum decided to move the Pak 40 from the 625 to the 611. All the documentation found points to the 625's numbered 1405 and 1406. If you're father was indeed listed to the 4th kompanie of the 723th I see no other options then one of the 625's in Bp. 14. Do you perhaps remember if he once said the family he stayed with was in the 'town' Hoek van Holland or 'Festung' Hoek van Holland? And if he was near the beach or the landfront?

If he was with the 2th kompanie, there is a good change you're father manned a Pak 40 in the Landfront of the Festung Hoek van Holland. They were responsible for this front and had a Pak 40 in a 625 of Widerstandsnest 45 near Naaldwijk and most likely Wn. 53 (in a 680) or Wn. 30 (in a 601). Both Wn. 53 and Wn. 45 had houses very nearby.

Let's not give up that easy

Cheers, Peter

[hannibal2]

Thanks AvB for the tip! Years ago, I contacted the WASt, but could not get any information about my father. No records found. So unfortunately that aid is not available and thus doesn't help to resolve the issue.
Cheers, Gert