horse-drawn infantry antitank guns

[Sheldrake]

Thank you gentlemen.

They probably discovered that one horse was not enough to tow the limber and the gun (as per the KStN 186 dated 01.10.39 and 01.05.41), as the KStN 188d dated 01.11.1941 for the 37mm Pak shows 4-horse-team per gun+limber.

And, in the case of KStN 188d for the 50mm Pak, the document shows a 6-horse-team per gun+limber.

Cheers

--
Leo

That makes sense. The Pak 38 weighs about 80% of the weight of the WW1 era 7.7 cm FK 96 n.A. and 60% opf the weight of the heav ier 7.5 cm FK 16 nA It has smaller wheels with pneumatic tyres which are harder for a horse team to pull over rough ground.

[Leo Niehorster]

Just to complete the picture, KStN 188b dated 01.12.1941 — which is for the 7.5cm or 7.6cm Pak — shows the identical organization as the 5cm Pak, that is, also with a 6-horse-team per gun+limber.

Cheers

--
Leo

[jopaerya]

Don't know fur sure that these are horses , but here a NARA document from 1944 .

Regards Jos

[Sheldrake]

Don't know fur sure that these are horses , but here a NARA document from 1944 .

Regards Jos

These symbols show the 7.5 cm guns towed by Opel Blitz trucks, the 5cm guns with four horses and the "panjie" wagons with one horse.

[Sturm78]

Hi all,

An 3.7cm Pak gun with limber: Granatwerferkarren If.9 or Gebirgskarren M. 15(t) ???

Image from Ebay
Sturm78

[SIS 5]

Hi Strum 78,

an interesting question and an interesting pic. Thanks for posting. I think it cannot be an If. 9. I assume, that it is a Czechoslovakian carriage, but not the model M. 15, but the model M. 24. Here pics of both for comparing.

Best regards

Bert

[Alanmccoubrey]

I was watching Wochenschau on Youtube the other day and there was a clip of some Cossacks in German service with horse drawn Pak40's ! And of course I haven't been able to find it again to get the details.

[Sturm78]

Bert wrote
an interesting question and an interesting pic. Thanks for posting. I think it cannot be an If. 9. I assume, that it is a Czechoslovakian carriage, but not the model M. 15, but the model M. 24. Here pics of both for comparing.

Ummhhh....I think the wheels of the M.24 are smaller than those of my image. I think the cart of my image match more with the M.15 although it is difficult to ensure...

Here, another image from Ebay

Sturm78

[kfbr392]

here is KStN 188d of 01.12.1941.
from sturmpanzer.com, filename is along top of image, p.102.

[Max104740]

Here the corrispondent KStN 188 c of 1 dec 41, for an horse driven anti-tank medium platoon with two 50 mm guns. The file is from the german russian project site, 12480 A46 folder

[Sturm78]

Hi all,

An image from Ebay: I think an 5cm PaK 38 gun with anf If.12 or If.14 limber

Sturm78

[SIS 5]

Hi Sturm 78,

a very nice find and an excellent ID. I think like You that it is a 5 cm PAK 38. You can see two typical cartridge boxes of this AT gun on the limber. Here another pic of this PAk also horde-drawn.

Best regards

Bert

[Sturm78]

Hi all,

An image from Ebay:

Sturm78