5 cm KwK used in fortifications

[jopaerya]

Yes Kurt

That could be the reason

Regards Jos

[M19 MADMAL]

Hi,

Below are 2 photos of a 5cm KwK 39 which is said to be a rare design which was not proceded with and only a few were produced (???).

3 such examples were to be found in the Channel Islands with 1 at Wn. La Motte A on Jersey on the emplacement also shown below and 2 on Guernsey which were both mounted in Type L414A (the only 2 on the Atlantikwall!) found at Wn Gabelsberg and Wn. Perleburg.

Jos has posted in the past that the mounting may be a French naval mount for the 7.5cm 97(f)

Regards,
Malcolm

[Lars Bertelsen]

Hi Malcolm
Thanks for sharing these photos.
I guess that this is the first version of the Sockellafette for 5 cm KwK, designed in the summer of 1942 by reusing captured French pedestal mounts. Shortly later, it was decided to use the new Behelfssockellafette for this purpose.
Interesting to see that any of the ex-French mounts with 5 cm KwK were actually used.

greetings
lars

[jopaerya]

Here one at the ex Museum at Dieppe .

Regards Jos

[Manuferey]

I’m not convinced that the mountings are ex-French. For instance, the conical mounting of the « canon G de 75 mm Mle 1897 » was not as wide. Conical mountings were widely used before WW2 by many nations for small caliber coastal guns or even anti-aircraft guns as it is a simple but robust mounting design. It is possible that the Germans designed a specific conical mounting for the 5 cm KwK .

Separately, all the pictures above with the conical mounting show L/60 guns i.e. with the muzzle brake (removed in case of the gun at Dieppe but the threaded portion is still visible). Therefore, it is difficult to deduct that this mounting preceded the most widely know mounting and could not be a simplified mounting that appeared later or locally. It would be interesting to find a picture of a L/42 gun on a conical mounting.

Emmanuel

[Clive Mortimore]

Was the L/60 used as a naval weapon on board small craft? If so could that be the origin of this type of mounting?

Clive

[moonraker]

hi,
the similair 50 kwk yet in place,but destroy for the rust !!

[jopaerya]

Nice picture Etienne

Regards Jos

[Lars Bertelsen]

Hello
No it is right, it doesn’t really look like the old French pedestal mount. And If it is a former 7.5 cm gun mount, it is strange that the 5 cm gum is fitted with the muzzle brake. This shouldn’t be necessary.
It reminds of an old pedestal mount for a ship gun, and also a bit of the (probably never build) Sockellafette Ib. But the latter was fitted with a square base plate.
greetings
lars

[AvB]

5cm KwK in the Atlantikwall? Source: ebay.

[AvB]

Can anyone ID this as a 5cm KwK? Must be a 667?

[Eax-E]

Probably yes, there can't be a 2 m thick wall but rather a 1.5 m compared with the men.

[jopaerya]

A 5 cm KwK near Calais , photo is from Ebay .

Regards Jos

[Bunkerfreak]

For the open emplacements, does anyone know the name or number for the design? some days ago i saw a german document here on the forum with both the names "Tobrukstand" and "KwK-stand" written on it about the buildings that are built on that location.

Could the name "KwK-stand" be a somewhat official name for this bunkertype? some sources say VF600v, but i've never seen that before on any german document...

[dirk Peeters]

some KwK sands are VF 9 but not all and Vf600v was something invented and it s not german at all
Dirk