Big ventilation openings in PdC (lindemann Todt Oldenburg)

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dirk Peeters
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Big ventilation openings in PdC (lindemann Todt Oldenburg)

#1

Post by dirk Peeters » 29 Nov 2018, 14:08

in the big gun bunkers are in the gunroom many openings in the rear
here Batterie oldenburg
00 oldenburg 1.JPG
00 oldenburg 1.JPG (33.51 KiB) Viewed 793 times
we see bricked up
Here Bttr Todt
00 todt 1.JPG
00 todt 1.JPG (42.77 KiB) Viewed 793 times
00 todt 2.JPG
00 todt 2.JPG (32.04 KiB) Viewed 793 times
also a lot of them bricked up
many of them are bricked up at the end of the war so if these where necessary for the function of the gun why they where bricked up ? so they didn t have a function at all
even stranger at the Batterie Lindemann
Last edited by dirk Peeters on 29 Nov 2018, 14:18, edited 1 time in total.

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dirk Peeters
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Re: Big ventilation openings in PdC (lindemann Todt Oldenburg)

#2

Post by dirk Peeters » 29 Nov 2018, 14:17

the gunroom of Lindemann is build with these ventilation openings
00 verdiep 1c plan.jpg
so the germans found it necessary the incorporate them in the building proces although they knew they had no function at all
because there was an other part of the bunker build
1 plan A.jpg
1 plan A1.jpg
on picture we see this
030.jpg
030.jpg (66.46 KiB) Viewed 790 times
so why they are construct as they knew no meaning to do so ?
any one an idea ?


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Re: Big ventilation openings in PdC (lindemann Todt Oldenburg)

#3

Post by M19 MADMAL » 29 Nov 2018, 19:53

Hi Dirk,

Battterie Mirus on Guernsey did not have an electrically powered rammer to push the shells and charges into the barrel and the door at the rear of the turret had to be opened to allow the ramrod to be used to push the ordinance into the breech.

Perhaps the holes are for the same reason to allow a ramrod to be used but later an electrically powered rammer was provided so the holes were not needed and blocked up?

Regards,
Malcolm :milwink:
"I had expected only ruins", "It's as if I had only left the bunker yesterday!"
Herr Engelbert Hoppe. M19 bunker Commander 1944/45 when he first returned in 2006.

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dirk Peeters
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Re: Big ventilation openings in PdC (lindemann Todt Oldenburg)

#4

Post by dirk Peeters » 29 Nov 2018, 19:58

Nice thought yes but on the other side the outside . There is nothing . By the bttr todt it is meters high where these openings are. The same goes for oldenburg

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Re: Big ventilation openings in PdC (lindemann Todt Oldenburg)

#5

Post by M19 MADMAL » 29 Nov 2018, 20:17

Hi Dirk,

The guns of 30.5cm Batterie Mirus did not have any protection provided behind the turret as they had a 360 degree field of fire and where not provided with protective roof canopies. When the back door was open which was required to use the ramrod to load the gun (visible in this plan) there was nothing for protection.

If the holes in the other Batteries are not in line with the barrel when it is horizontal then it would suggest that it has nothing to do with the barrel.

Regards,

Malcolm :milwink:
Attachments
bgsgsbft.jpg
"I had expected only ruins", "It's as if I had only left the bunker yesterday!"
Herr Engelbert Hoppe. M19 bunker Commander 1944/45 when he first returned in 2006.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/StrongpointCorbiereJersey/

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Re: Big ventilation openings in PdC (lindemann Todt Oldenburg)

#6

Post by wimve » 29 Nov 2018, 20:27

dirk Peeters wrote:
29 Nov 2018, 14:17
the gunroom of Lindemann is build with these ventilation openings
Dirk, was there no central extraction point on the turret to vent out the fumes ?

The ram rod has to get out I guess, an opening high above ground doesn't matter then. As long as the rod can stick out.
Is the ram rod also used to move the projectile from the hoist cradle into the barrel or only to get it into the barrel ?

I am sorry that I can not post 3D model here since the drawings are being published.

I am pretty sure the Germans had a plan B in case the ammo hoist didn't work so maybe a way to transport ammo from high outside into the gun room ?
Thanks,

Wim
www.petromax.nl
3D : http://www.petromax.nl/Hanstholm.html
http://www.petromax.nl/DeBeer.html

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Re: Big ventilation openings in PdC (lindemann Todt Oldenburg)

#7

Post by JKernwerk » 29 Nov 2018, 20:54

Could it be they were bricked up just before the Allied attack on the Cap Griz Nez started?
To prevent shrapnell and small arms fire coming in to the gunroom.
I can imagine that when a shot was fired a lot of smoke had to get rid of, to fasten it up every way would be used.
Gunner safety, better view during the loading of the next firingload, faster firing could be just a few of the reasons that the holes were there.
Greetings Jack.

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Re: Big ventilation openings in PdC (lindemann Todt Oldenburg)

#8

Post by wimve » 29 Nov 2018, 20:55

Dirk and others,

I think the answer lays in the building process.
These big bunkers where build in building steps. So first the gun has to be functional, then covered and then the rest was build.
When you look at the building joints they perfectly match with the holes.
So during the building after the canopy was in place they could load the gun from outside. I think that these now blind openings perfectly match with the later build ammo transfer opening from the ammo rooms build later on.
Lindemann-joints.jpg
Lindemann joints (Britsh report)
Thanks,

Wim
www.petromax.nl
3D : http://www.petromax.nl/Hanstholm.html
http://www.petromax.nl/DeBeer.html

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Re: Big ventilation openings in PdC (lindemann Todt Oldenburg)

#9

Post by dirk Peeters » 29 Nov 2018, 22:08

Wim that sounds not so bad and when looking at plans and pictures
i ll think you ve got the solution
the openings are in total line with the turret door at the rear which is in total line with the barrel
200.JPG
201.JPG
202.jpg

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Re: Big ventilation openings in PdC (lindemann Todt Oldenburg)

#10

Post by dirk Peeters » 29 Nov 2018, 22:16

are there problems with axis
it opens the whole day very slow
and now almost impossible to post anything

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Re: Big ventilation openings in PdC (lindemann Todt Oldenburg)

#11

Post by M19 MADMAL » 29 Nov 2018, 23:56

wimve wrote:
29 Nov 2018, 20:27

The ram rod has to get out I guess, an opening high above ground doesn't matter then. As long as the rod can stick out.
Is the ram rod also used to move the projectile from the hoist cradle into the barrel or only to get it into the barrel ?
In the case of Mirus the shells and propellant bags were rolled onto the loading table from each side from where they had been hoisted up into the turret. The loading table then rolled forward to the breech of the gun ready to push the shell in.

The plan shows the shell and two propellant bags behind the breech on the loading table before being pushed forward for loading. The pecked line of the shell etc. and the loading table shows the table pushed forward ready for loading directly behind the breech.

Taking into account the length of the two propellant charges and also the breech block the shell would need to be pushed about 2/3 meters into the breech and then you also need to take into account the length of the loading table and also the length of the ramrod needed to be held to push the shell etc. into the breech. The plan shows the ramrod going out of the back of the turret and looks to be at least 5 meters long!

The photo shows the shell being rammed into the breech from the loading table with the turret door open at the back to do this. The plan shows a special little hatch for the ram rod to use in the turret's rear door.

Photos from Mirus the making of a Battery (Festung Guersey)

Regards,
Malcolm :milwink:
Attachments
php0FAcUHPM.jpg
phpAEVPsIPM.jpg
"I had expected only ruins", "It's as if I had only left the bunker yesterday!"
Herr Engelbert Hoppe. M19 bunker Commander 1944/45 when he first returned in 2006.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/StrongpointCorbiereJersey/

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dirk Peeters
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Re: Big ventilation openings in PdC (lindemann Todt Oldenburg)

#12

Post by dirk Peeters » 30 Nov 2018, 10:37

thanks Malcolm an others for your explanations and plans .
think we have to separate here and stick to Lindemann, i m sure that is the answer here the rod can stick out in this way
but batterie todt has two levels of openings
i ll start with Lindemann
I ve searched trough the pictures i have in my collection and searched in books of several writers
I ll hope to offend no one if the source isn t mentioned but as these are wartime pictures we could say ECPDA or Bundesarchive for the most

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Re: Big ventilation openings in PdC (lindemann Todt Oldenburg)

#13

Post by dirk Peeters » 30 Nov 2018, 10:54

for the moment these are the only pictures i ve found for the rod stick (Ansetzer i believe in german)
it looks that it is made in several parts for not sticking out or is this for stowing away ?
01 ansetzer (2).jpg
01 ansetzer (3).jpg
01 ansetzer (2a).jpg
Last edited by dirk Peeters on 30 Nov 2018, 11:42, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Big ventilation openings in PdC (lindemann Todt Oldenburg)

#14

Post by dirk Peeters » 30 Nov 2018, 11:02

01 ansetzer (5).jpg
01 ansetzer (5).jpg (68.51 KiB) Viewed 657 times
here i ll think we see the ansetzer sticking out when loading as Malcolm said
01 ansetzer (6).JPG
01 ansetzer (6).JPG (64.86 KiB) Viewed 657 times
01 ansetzer (7).jpg
01 ansetzer (7).jpg (56.45 KiB) Viewed 656 times

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Re: Big ventilation openings in PdC (lindemann Todt Oldenburg)

#15

Post by dirk Peeters » 30 Nov 2018, 11:28

the lifting equipment in the turret in the Lindemann bttr in construction
02 ammolift (1).jpg
02 ammolift (1).jpg (66.96 KiB) Viewed 654 times
02 ammolift (2a).JPG
02 ammolift (3).jpg

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