Big ventilation openings in PdC (lindemann Todt Oldenburg)
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Re: Big ventilation openings in PdC (lindemann Todt Oldenburg)
It might be a good time to cover the reason for the ramming of the Projectile. The purpose is not merely to push the projectile into the chamber, but to push it with sufficient force to cause it to engage the driving band past the forcing cone and into the rifling of the tube. A firm engagement is necessary to prevent the projectile from falling back into the chamber when the gun is elevated. Such an event would allow there gas generated by the propellant to blow by the projectile and create erratic range impacts. In order to properly seat a 2100 lb projectile considerable force is required. Looking at the picture of the german manual ramming crew I would suspect that it was determined that this method was marginally if at all effective and abandoned in the later batteries.
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Re: Big ventilation openings in PdC (lindemann Todt Oldenburg)
Hi All,
Looking at this photo, perhaps the holes are to serve as emergency exits.
As the guns were conceived to normally take incoming fire from the front (from ships or English coastal artillery) the Germans would have planned a way for the crew to escape from the rear if the turret took a heavy frontal hit. The gunners could quickly get out of the back door of the turret and through the holes in the casemate wall and once through to the outside behind would have some protection from any possible blast caused by ammo in the turret detonating from a resulting fire.
It also makes sense to brick them up if attack was known to be coming from the rear to give some protection to enemy armour or field guns firing through the gaps.
In a similar way the lowest observation slit of MP3 on Alderney was bricked up to protect it from incoming ground fire during an enemy ground attack after the planned construction of the 3 coastal artillery batteries on the Island was never realised.
Regards,
Malcolm
Looking at this photo, perhaps the holes are to serve as emergency exits.
As the guns were conceived to normally take incoming fire from the front (from ships or English coastal artillery) the Germans would have planned a way for the crew to escape from the rear if the turret took a heavy frontal hit. The gunners could quickly get out of the back door of the turret and through the holes in the casemate wall and once through to the outside behind would have some protection from any possible blast caused by ammo in the turret detonating from a resulting fire.
It also makes sense to brick them up if attack was known to be coming from the rear to give some protection to enemy armour or field guns firing through the gaps.
In a similar way the lowest observation slit of MP3 on Alderney was bricked up to protect it from incoming ground fire during an enemy ground attack after the planned construction of the 3 coastal artillery batteries on the Island was never realised.
Regards,
Malcolm
"I had expected only ruins", "It's as if I had only left the bunker yesterday!"
Herr Engelbert Hoppe. M19 bunker Commander 1944/45 when he first returned in 2006.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/StrongpointCorbiereJersey/
Herr Engelbert Hoppe. M19 bunker Commander 1944/45 when he first returned in 2006.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/StrongpointCorbiereJersey/
- dirk Peeters
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Re: Big ventilation openings in PdC (lindemann Todt Oldenburg)
i ll think you have the reason yes Roland
first two rows of opening (Todt bttr)
one for ventilation , one for pushing
then the germans covered Oldenburg (1 row ) and Friedrich August 1 row but only 1or 2 openings at the side , not at the rear ( from the info i have , so this may be wrong)
then Lindeman , they skipped the ventilation row at all but retained the pushing holes
at Vara they abandoned the idea of openings at all
first two rows of opening (Todt bttr)
one for ventilation , one for pushing
then the germans covered Oldenburg (1 row ) and Friedrich August 1 row but only 1or 2 openings at the side , not at the rear ( from the info i have , so this may be wrong)
then Lindeman , they skipped the ventilation row at all but retained the pushing holes
at Vara they abandoned the idea of openings at all
- dirk Peeters
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Re: Big ventilation openings in PdC (lindemann Todt Oldenburg)
hello Malcolm
i don t think at the rear of the turret that opening is large enough to evacuate the turret
and also there is a certain distance for reaching at the openings , further some at Bttr todt are meters high from the ground as they come out at the outside of the bunker , and last but not least , the turret must be good placed otherwise there is a wall of concrete between the openings whish is a few meters
i don t think at the rear of the turret that opening is large enough to evacuate the turret
and also there is a certain distance for reaching at the openings , further some at Bttr todt are meters high from the ground as they come out at the outside of the bunker , and last but not least , the turret must be good placed otherwise there is a wall of concrete between the openings whish is a few meters
- dirk Peeters
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Re: Big ventilation openings in PdC (lindemann Todt Oldenburg)
hello malcolm
gonna search for pictures of those turrets nowadays
see how big the opening is in the rear
gonna search for pictures of those turrets nowadays
see how big the opening is in the rear
Re: Big ventilation openings in PdC (lindemann Todt Oldenburg)
That is because it is the center point when rotating the gun.dirk Peeters wrote: ↑01 Dec 2018, 15:07i don t understand something
The Bttr Todt has ventilation openings and a very vulnerable piping system for the ventilation of the turret which in my opinion isn t safe at all , by bombardments and by enemyfire extremely dangerous
Knipsel.JPGKnipsel2.JPGKnipsel1.JPG
So the only point where you don't have any horizontal movement when rotating the gun.
Thanks,
Wim
www.petromax.nl
3D : http://www.petromax.nl/Hanstholm.html
http://www.petromax.nl/DeBeer.html
Wim
www.petromax.nl
3D : http://www.petromax.nl/Hanstholm.html
http://www.petromax.nl/DeBeer.html
- dirk Peeters
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Re: Big ventilation openings in PdC (lindemann Todt Oldenburg)
Google is wonderfull
no way it can be used as an exit
but thanks Malcolm we must search every way in our inquiries
no way it can be used as an exit
but thanks Malcolm we must search every way in our inquiries
- dirk Peeters
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Re: Big ventilation openings in PdC (lindemann Todt Oldenburg)
hello Wim i understand that rotation system and my thought is why a armoured turret with so a clumsy and unprotected ventilation system
a 2 cm fired from an airplane could wreck that system]
at the rear of todt only for ventilation they used thick armor Panzerteile 20 cm thick and covered them with concrete
and the turret only piping from at most a few mm
a 2 cm fired from an airplane could wreck that system]
at the rear of todt only for ventilation they used thick armor Panzerteile 20 cm thick and covered them with concrete
and the turret only piping from at most a few mm
- dirk Peeters
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Re: Big ventilation openings in PdC (lindemann Todt Oldenburg)
and a second thougt
At Lindemann and Vara there are at that point a pipe trough the roof , maybe for this reason or for lifting the gun (jos asked this question before here)
At Lindemann and Vara there are at that point a pipe trough the roof , maybe for this reason or for lifting the gun (jos asked this question before here)
Re: Big ventilation openings in PdC (lindemann Todt Oldenburg)
I always wonder where are the germans who used it ?
Ok they are old but somewhere there must be a user still alive.
As for the ventilation. Maybe tehre was a ventilation when not under fire using the pipe going partly outside and looking weird.
Under attack it didn't matter since they still had the vents left and right and if I am not wrong fresh air was pump in the gun from the pedestal under the gun. At last this was so in Hanstholm.
Behind the gun housing you still have a walkway.
So the lower holes, when open could be used as firing point to the backside or as means of escape.
Ok they are old but somewhere there must be a user still alive.
As for the ventilation. Maybe tehre was a ventilation when not under fire using the pipe going partly outside and looking weird.
Under attack it didn't matter since they still had the vents left and right and if I am not wrong fresh air was pump in the gun from the pedestal under the gun. At last this was so in Hanstholm.
Behind the gun housing you still have a walkway.
So the lower holes, when open could be used as firing point to the backside or as means of escape.
Thanks,
Wim
www.petromax.nl
3D : http://www.petromax.nl/Hanstholm.html
http://www.petromax.nl/DeBeer.html
Wim
www.petromax.nl
3D : http://www.petromax.nl/Hanstholm.html
http://www.petromax.nl/DeBeer.html
- dirk Peeters
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Re: Big ventilation openings in PdC (lindemann Todt Oldenburg)
There must be plans of these turrets
Maybe that s a starting point
Maybe that s a starting point
- dirk Peeters
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Re: Big ventilation openings in PdC (lindemann Todt Oldenburg)
Posted that picture already but for future research by someone i llput it also here
Re: Big ventilation openings in PdC (lindemann Todt Oldenburg)
You also post it at the discussion about the loading hatches. That makes it confusing.dirk Peeters wrote: ↑02 Dec 2018, 12:48Posted that picture already but for future research by someone i llput it also here
Are this the ammo hatch openings or ventilation openings ?
Thanks,
Wim
www.petromax.nl
3D : http://www.petromax.nl/Hanstholm.html
http://www.petromax.nl/DeBeer.html
Wim
www.petromax.nl
3D : http://www.petromax.nl/Hanstholm.html
http://www.petromax.nl/DeBeer.html
- dirk Peeters
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Re: Big ventilation openings in PdC (lindemann Todt Oldenburg)
This picture is ventilation, no ammo
- dirk Peeters
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Re: Big ventilation openings in PdC (lindemann Todt Oldenburg)
here a picture when the 'ventilation' was still open before the germans closed it with the second phase of the building of the bunker
and onother when they are closed with the construction at the rear