HaKo or HaKa

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jopaerya
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HaKo or HaKa

#1

Post by jopaerya » 20 Dec 2018, 10:23

I always thought there was a "Hafenkommandant" or a "Hafenkapitan" but never together .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_G ... rld_War_II
But on this NARA map you can see in Le Havre there were both at the same time ??

Regards Jos
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Leo Niehorster
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Re: HaKo or HaKa

#2

Post by Leo Niehorster » 20 Dec 2018, 11:13

I could be wrong, but Hafenkapitän is probably Captain of the Port (a Navy position),
whereas Hafen-Kommandant could be the Harbor (Police) Commandant (an Army position). Note the squares marked "Kommandantur", which is the typical designation used to indicate the military government police headquarters.

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dirk Peeters
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Re: HaKo or HaKa

#3

Post by dirk Peeters » 20 Dec 2018, 12:11

hafenkapitan 608.JPG
hafenkapitan
could it be the 608 ?

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dirk Peeters
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Re: HaKo or HaKa

#4

Post by dirk Peeters » 20 Dec 2018, 12:13

hafenkommandant.JPG
i m sure Sebastien could tel us more

jopaerya
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Re: HaKo or HaKa

#5

Post by jopaerya » 20 Dec 2018, 13:25

Thanks Leo and Dirk

I think the Hafenkommandant is also a navy position. see the attachment. ( Ebay )

Regards Jos
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moonraker
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Re: HaKo or HaKa

#6

Post by moonraker » 20 Dec 2018, 14:26

hello,
here the image of Sluise Sas quinette

Me belfra-team

Source Ncap 1945
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jopaerya
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Re: HaKo or HaKa

#7

Post by jopaerya » 20 Dec 2018, 15:51

Yes, the R 608 for the Hafenkapitan and the large bunker with the turret for the Hafenkommandant ??

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dirk Peeters
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Re: HaKo or HaKa

#8

Post by dirk Peeters » 20 Dec 2018, 16:25

Le havre turm.jpg
Le havre turm.jpg (39.28 KiB) Viewed 1467 times
you mean this one ?

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Leo Niehorster
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Re: HaKo or HaKa

#9

Post by Leo Niehorster » 20 Dec 2018, 17:11

Appears you are right, Jos. :oops:

I.A.W. Wiki:
List of German naval ports during World War II
The following is a list of German naval ports during World War II. Ports operated by the Kriegsmarine were divided into two classes - major and minor. For most major ports, a port commander (Hafenkommandanten) was the senior most officer in charge of the port. Ports in the same geographical area were grouped together under administrative units known as Hafenkommandanten im Bereich. Vessels assigned within German ports were organized into harbor defense flotillas.

Smaller ports were overseen by "Port captains" (Hafenkapitäne); however, in some larger ports this title was also used for the port commander. Both major and minor port commanders reported to a naval area commander (Der Kommandant im Abschnitt), who in turn administratively reported to a Navy district commander. For operational military defense, ports were also assigned to one of several sea defense zones.
Based on
    Lohmann W. & Hildebrand H., Die Deutsche Kriegsmarine, Verlag Hans-Henning Podzun, Bad Nauheim (1956)

Unfortunately, this does not really explain the presence of both in Le Havre.

PS
What date is the organizational diagram in post #5? Is the bottom bit available?

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Re: HaKo or HaKa

#10

Post by jopaerya » 20 Dec 2018, 18:40

Hello Leo

The page is from NARA T1022 Roll 1771 and date is September 1942 . Check your Yahoo .

Regards Jos

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Leo Niehorster
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Re: HaKo or HaKa

#11

Post by Leo Niehorster » 21 Dec 2018, 10:25

Hi Jos,

Thank you here and at Yahoo!

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Re: HaKo or HaKa

#12

Post by hakobordeaux » 22 Dec 2018, 23:40

Hello,

To my opinion Hako is for Haka the same level than Feldkommandantur and Standortkommantur ...

In addition, i notice than Arcachon is labelled Hako in Wikipedia !? I thought it was Haka ... commanded by a certain Shumacher !

Best regards

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jpz4
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Re: HaKo or HaKa

#13

Post by jpz4 » 19 Sep 2019, 13:38

FWIW, Cherbourg also had both a Hafenkommandant and a Hafenkapitän. Based on this link this would appear to be rather standard: https://www.forum-der-wehrmacht.de/inde ... read/21686
Hafenkapitän:
1 Offizier (1 Hafenkapitän)
60 - 90 Mann (1 HS-Flo + 1 WchZg)

Hafenkommandant:
6 Offiziere (1 Hafenkommandant; 1 Hafenkapitän (gleichzeitig Flottillen-Chef); 1 Verbindungsoffizier; 1 Arzt; 2 Kompaniechefs)
420 - 450 Mann (1 KS-Flo + 1 WchKp + 1 KfKp)
This still does not fully identify the responsibilities of the two positions, but it does help.

BTW, does anyone happen to know where this information comes from? Or have a KStN for either command? I'd like to put more structure to my Naval officers list for Cherbourg.
Last edited by jpz4 on 20 Sep 2019, 00:15, edited 1 time in total.

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P. Heijkoop
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Re: HaKo or HaKa

#14

Post by P. Heijkoop » 19 Sep 2019, 23:42

Hi, most likely Hafenkdt for the harbour facilities and the Kapitaen for naval movements? Lets say quartermaster VS operations. Peter

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jpz4
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Re: HaKo or HaKa

#15

Post by jpz4 » 20 Sep 2019, 00:07

IMHO, that does not seem very likely. The Hafenkapitän was subordinated to the Hafenkdt. Being in charge of operations with a mere rank of Oberlt. would seem rather odd.

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