Battleship on shore?

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Erik E
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Battleship on shore?

Post by Erik E » 15 Jun 2003 20:39

As mentioned before, the Kriegsmarine fire control posts for coastal artillery was inspired by the warships. This bunker in MKB v.d. Köster, which I visited yesterday is no exeption! There are ladders and stairs in every direction, loads of custom built iron parts are added in the structure. Some of the doors are even opened with wheels instead of handles!
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Xavier
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x

Post by Xavier » 15 Jun 2003 20:45

hello Erik!

Gee.. :D

I guess they wanted to feel like "home" (inside a warship..)

best regards

Xavier
the link scrounger
(BTW..nice looking weather..)

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Erik E
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Post by Erik E » 15 Jun 2003 21:02

I guess they wanted to feel like "home" (inside a warship..)

Exactly! These men also had most of their training on ships. The guns used in this battery was also designed for ships.
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Redbaron1908
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Post by Redbaron1908 » 17 Jun 2003 01:01

Great photo's Erik, Are there many other of these sites in Norway or did the Germans just make a few? Did the Germans plan to use these weapons on ships and then decided to use them for land use?

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Erik E
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Post by Erik E » 17 Jun 2003 22:16

Hallo!

There were in total 221 coastal batteries in Norway. They were manned with some 350000 soldiers from ca 10 Regiments. Only 65000 of these were attached to Navy coastal batteries, so the navy definately had much lesser sites than the heer had! This battery is a "one of a kind" as none of the bunkers are from the standarized "regelbau" system. Some similarities can be found in other Navy batteries in the area, but not identical. This klloks like a place where the constructors were free to use their imagination when they built it! :)

Did the Germans plan to use these weapons on ships and then decided to use them for land use?

The guns were made for use on ships, but the guns were often ordered several years before the actuall construction of the hull started. If the ship then got cancelled, or they decided to add other guns, they suddenly had a few too much! In most occations, they used guns from old ships which were scrapped or upgraded, or even from ships which was damaged beyond repair.
As an example, when Gneisenau was upgraded, two triple 28cm turrets were placed in Norway, while the last 3 barrels from the 3rd turret were used in separate mountings in France. ( The turret was too heavy to be mounted in sand ground!)

Erik

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Redbaron1908
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Post by Redbaron1908 » 17 Jun 2003 22:22

Thank you for the information Erik. Another question I have is why were some of these bunkers under diffrent commands, is there a reason that these were navy bunkers and others were heer?

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Christian Ankerstjerne
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Post by Christian Ankerstjerne » 17 Jun 2003 22:22

That's a large complex, I must say!

Christian

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Erik E
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Post by Erik E » 17 Jun 2003 22:52

In the beginning, it was the navy who were given the task of defending the coast. As the reich suddenly had to defend along the entire atlantic, insted of "just" the German coast, it was a sudden need for many men!
The only solution was to use Heer artillery regiments. These regiments used regular fieldguns in special mountings.

It seems like it was much more "status" to be a Navy battery, as these often had much better equipment, better quarters, most batteries named after famous commanders, instead of numbers. The navy even had an own warbadge, which the army never had......

This battery showed here ("Von der Köster") was also the artillery school for navy personell in Norway. In old papers, you can see a warning the day before the drills. This warning tells you to open your windows, otherwise, they might be destroyed from the blast of the guns!

Erik

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Madsen
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Post by Madsen » 19 Jun 2003 18:06

Just vivited a heeresküstenbatterie (16/974 Grönsviken) and took these pics from it. It is quite demolished(was nearly destroyed after WWII.
But i could still see what most of the bunkers was fore

I also found remains of one of the guns there. Not sure if this is from the same gun.
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Sam H.
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Post by Sam H. » 19 Jun 2003 21:12

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the direct fire weapons, the batteries actually deployed on the shore were mostly naval weapons. I thought the army tended to deploy their weapons in-land.

There was an ongoing argument between the navy and army as to weather the guns should and could be used against naval vessels as oppossed to providing fire support on the beaches.

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Erik E
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Post by Erik E » 19 Jun 2003 21:42

the batteries actually deployed on the shore were mostly naval weapons. I thought the army tended to deploy their weapons in-land.


I think you mix up the regular artillery regiments with the coastal ones.....
Of all the batteries I have ever been in the Atlantikwall, none of them are more than 1 Km from the shore. The Heer guns were 99% regular field artillery, most of them captured guns dating back to ww1.

There was an ongoing argument between the navy and army as to weather the guns should and could be used against naval vessels as oppossed to providing fire support on the beaches.


Normally, the battery itself would be 10 times more fortified than the beaches alone. It would be much tougher, near to suicide, to launch an invasion directly at a intact medium or heavy coastal battery.
This forced the attacker to land at beaches outside the battery areas, and then the arguement on where to shoot rises.

Erik

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Erik E
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Post by Erik E » 19 Jun 2003 21:50

I also found remains of one of the guns there. Not sure if this is from the same gun


That wheel looks like it belongs to a ex-French K416(f) The gun could be the original K416(f).....It has got new wheels, and the entire platform it once stood at, is gone.
Did you see any markings on the gun?

Nice photos btw, have you got more? 8)

Erik

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Post by Madsen » 19 Jun 2003 22:35

Hi Erik. the main gun was 155mm K416 guns. (french) the gun you see is a 75mm german gun as i remember. I took about 50 pic from ther :lol:


This is a part of a gun. but to rusty to find any markings on
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Post by Madsen » 19 Jun 2003 22:43

some more pics:here is one gun pos that is more intact.


And a part of the trenches that are intact.
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Erik E
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Post by Erik E » 19 Jun 2003 22:47

the gun you see is a 75mm german gun as i remember


Sorry to say that I think you are wrong Madsen...... :o
Without being 101% I will say that it is a K416(f) we look at there.......
If not, it is very similar!

Any other photos from the gun?

Erik

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