Captured Foreign Artillery?

Discussions on the fortifications, artillery, & rockets used by the Axis forces.
Alternative Scenario
Member
Posts: 113
Joined: 12 May 2003 20:52
Location: UK

Captured Foreign Artillery?

Post by Alternative Scenario » 21 Jun 2003 01:09

Guderian wrote in Panzer Leader that in early 1944 while preparing the eastern German border defenses against the advancing Red Army discovered that "thousands of (captured) guns and other heavy equipment stored in ordnance depots". He tried to acquire the ones of more than 50mm calibre and with more than 50 rounds of ammunition!

Two questions
1) Anyone have any details of the types, numbers and county of origin
2) If these numbers are correct would these weapons not have been better employed strengthening the Atlantic Wall in 1943-44 or the Gustav/Gothic Lines in Italy?

Views

User avatar
Kugelblitz
Member
Posts: 168
Joined: 16 May 2003 05:08
Location: CE

Post by Kugelblitz » 21 Jun 2003 21:30

I make a list of them, I also include the ones that are under the 50mm caliber. Many was used in the Atlantic wall (just 2 as far I know), they wasn`t used a lot mainly due of the lack of ammo. The Italians ones was used on that countrie, Germans apreciated those guns. In the list I put the original name and the german designation.

France

47mm SA 1937/1939 = Pak(f) 4,7cm / Pak 183(f) 4,7cm ; used on SP guns like the 4,7cm Pak(f) auf Infantrie PzKpfw MK(e) based on the Matilda II

Canon de 75 1897 = FK 97(f), many converted in the AT guns Pak97/38 and Pak 97/40

Canon de 75 model 1917/34 (AA) = Flak M.17/34(f) 7,5cm

Canon de 75 model 1930 (AA) = Flak M.30(f) 7,5cm

Canon de 75 model 1933 (AA) = Flak M.33(f) 7,5cm

Canon de 105 C = 10,5cm leichte Feldhaubitze 324(f)

Canon de 155 C = 15,5cm sFH 414(f) *1

Canon de 155 GPF = 15,5cm Kanone 418(f)

Italy

Cannone da 75/27 Modello 11 = 7,5cm Feldkanone 244(i)

Cannone da 149/40 Modello 35 = 15cm Kanone 408(i)

Cannone da 149/19 Modello 41 = 15cm schwere Feldhaubitze 404 (i)

Obice da 210/22 Modello 35 = 21cm Haubitze 520 (i)

UK

QF 2-PDR = 4cm Pak 192(e)

QF 3in AA = Flak Vickers (e) 7,5cm

QF 25-PDR = 8,76cm Feldkanone 280(e)

QF 3,7in AA = 9,4cm Flak Vickers M.39(e), the Germans made 100000 cartdriges for them in early 1943.

6in Gun MK XIX = the German scrapped the captured one for resources.

6in Howitzer MK I = 15,2cm sFH 412 (e) *2

Russia

45mm Model 32/37/42 = Pak 184(r) / Pak 184/1(r) / Pak 184/6(r) 4,5cm

76,2mm AA Model 31/38 = Flak M.31(r) / M.38(r) 7,62cm ; due of the lack of original ammo, they was rebarreled to 88mm then the designation was updated to 7,62/8,8 cm

76,2mm Infantry Gun 1927 = Infantrie Kanone-Haubitze 290(r) 7,62cm

76,2mm Field Gun 1941 = Feldkanone 288/1(r) 7,62cm

76,2mm Field Gun 1942 = Feldkanone 288(r) 7,62cm

85mm AA Gun = 8,5cm M.39(r), then rebarreled and changed to 8,5/8,8cm M.39(r)

122mm Field Gun A-19/122-31 = 12,2 cm Kanone 390/2(r) / 390/1(r), both used on the Atlantic Wall.

152mm Field Gun BR-2 = 15,2 cm Kanone 440(r)

152mm Howitzer ML-20 = 15,2cm Kanonehaubitze 433/1(r) *3 ; used on coastal batteries.

203mm Howitzer BR-4 = From 20,3cm Haubitze 503(r) to 503/5(r), six versions that differ from the gun caliber and carriage ; all used in the eastern front against its original users.

*1, The canon was used in other countries and when the german captured them they give to it a different designation (I put the french one again):

Belgium: Obusier 155 = 15,5cm schwere Feldhaubitze 413(b)
France: C 17 S = 15,5cm sFH 414(f)
Italy: Obice da 155/14 PB = 15,5cm sFH 414(i)
Poland: 155mm Haubica wz 1917 = 15,5cm sFH17(p)
Russia: 152-17S (rebarreled) = 15,2cm sFH 449(r)

*2 Same as above:

Belgium: 6in Howitzer = 15,2cm sFH 410(b)
Holand: 6in Howitzer = 15,2cm sFH 407(h)
Italy: Obice da 152/13 = 15,2cm sFH 412(i)

*3 This designation is for the ML-20S I think, so the ML-20 shall be 15,2cm Kanonehaubitze 433(r)

Hope this helps :)

Alternative Scenario
Member
Posts: 113
Joined: 12 May 2003 20:52
Location: UK

Post by Alternative Scenario » 22 Jun 2003 00:35

Fantastic list but it makes me even more curious as to why the Germans held on to so many guns in 1944?

One policy they had regarding armour (from 1943 onwards) was not to deploy German built equipment in secondary theaters, instead use captured armour as far as possible!

Why not use all these weapons in key static sectors where there was a possibility of them being more useful?

User avatar
Christoph Awender
Forum Staff
Posts: 6667
Joined: 10 Mar 2002 17:22
Location: Austria

Post by Christoph Awender » 22 Jun 2003 00:48

The number of captured guns was not a problem. They had enough. But there were not enough units, men and ammo to use them.

\Christoph

User avatar
Erik E
Financial supporter
Posts: 4517
Joined: 11 Mar 2002 22:26
Location: Stavanger, Norway

Post by Erik E » 22 Jun 2003 00:52

This is from Marcus` factbook, and shows how many guns they actually had..... I guess the answer to your question could be lack of troops to man them!

2.5 cm PAK 112 (f) (ex-french M-34, the satandard AT gun of the French Army at the outbreak of the war)
2.5 cm PAK 113 (f) (ex-french M-37 Buil by Puteaux and lighter than the M-34, but with similar performance)
3.7 cm PAK 153 (h) (ex-dutch 37mm Rheinmetall, buyed to Germany)
3.7 cm PAK 158 (r) (ex russian 37 mm M 30, similar to the PAK 36, buyed to Germany)
3.7 cm PAK 162 (i) (ex-italian Canone contracarro da 37/45, PAK 36 buyed to Germany)
3.7 cm PAK 37 (t) (ex-czech M-37, issued to German troops after seizure of Czechoslovaquia)
3.7 cm PAK 156(j) (ex-jugoslavian M-37 Skoda)
3.7 cm PAK 36 (p) (ex-polish M-36, built by Bofors, and used also by the Finns and the British as Ordnance QF, 37 mm Mk I)
3.7 cm PAK 157 (d) (ex-danish M-34 Bofors, same gun as above)
3.7 cm PAK 164 (d) (ex-danish M-35 Madsen)
4.0 cm PAK 154 (b) (ex british 2 pounders used by the Belgian Army)
4.0 cm PAK 192 (e) (ex-british QF2 on carriage 2pr)
4.5 cm PAK 184 (r) (ex-russian M-30, a scaled up version of the PAK 36 )
4.5 cm PAK 184/1 (r) (ex-russian M-32, development of the M-30)
4.5 cm PAK 184/6 (r) (ex-russian M-36, the M-38 tank gun on makeshift carriage)
4.7 cm PAK 36 (t) (ex-czech M-36, very appreciated by German troops)
4.7 cm PAK 177 (i) (ex-italian M-35 Böhler)
4.7 cm PAK 179 (j) (ex jugoslavian M-36 Skoda)
4.7 cm PAK 181 (f) (ex french M-37,a very effective AT gun, also known as SA 37 APX)
4.7 cm PAK 183(f) (ex french M-39, development of the M-37)
4.7 cm PAK 185 (b) (ex-belgian Con de 47 antichars SA-FRC)
4.7 cm PAK 188 (h) (ex dutch Kanon van 47)
4.7 cm PAK 196 (r) (ex-russian 47 mm PTP Böhler)
5.7 cm PAK 208 (ex-russian M-41/ZIS-2)
7.5 cm PAK 97/38 (french 7.5 cm in PAK 38 carriage, used only until arrival of the PAK 40)
7.5 cm PAK 97/40 (french 7.5 cm in PAK 40 carriage)
7.62 cm PAK 36 (r) (ex-russian M-36)
7.62 cm PAK 39 (r) (ex-russian M-39 also called FeldKanone 297)
7.62 cm PAK 54 (r) (ex-russian, russian designation unknown)
9.5 cm Küstenkanone (f) (Ex-french canon de cote de 95 M 93) (Only used in France)
12.2 cm Küstenkanone 393 (r) (ex-russian coastal gun M ?)
15.2 cm Küstenkanone 456 (r) (ex-russian coastal gun M 04)
20.3 cm Küstenkanone L/45 (r) (old russian coastal guns from Sevastopol )
24.0 cm Schnellfeuerkanone C/97 (h) in Drehschiesslafette C/97 (h) (Naval guns from two Dutch coastal defence ships)
25.4 cm Küstenkanone 572 (r) (ex-russian coastal gun M 10)
27.0 cm Küstenmörser 585 (f) (ex-french coastal howitzer M 89)
30.5 cm Küstenkanone 626 (r) (ex-russian gun) (Captured in Narvik, en route from France to Finland, and restored by Krupp)
30.5 cm Haubitze modell 16 (Bofors) (Ex Norwegian?) (4 emplaced in Narvik)
34.0 cm Küstenkanone Modell 12 (f) (ex-french coastal gun M 12)

The following guns are of Norwegian origin and only used in Norway:
10.0 cm SKL40 MII Bofors (Removed from Norwegian ship "Æger") (German name: 10.0cm SKL 40(n))
10.0 cm L/40 MI (from the Norwegian ship Fröya)
12.0 cm L/40 Schneider
12.0 cm L/44 Armstrong (from the N. ships Tordenskiold & Harald Haarfagre)
15.0 cm L50 Bofors. German name:15.0 cm SKL 50(n)
15.0 cm L47,5 Armstrong. German name:15.0 cm SKL 47,5(n)
21.0 cm L45 St-Chamond. German name:21.0 cm SKL 45(n)
24.0 cm St-Chamond. German name:24.0 cm HL/12,7(n)
28.0 cm L40 Krupp (the guns which sunk Blücher) (German name: 28.0 cm SKL 40)
7.5 cm FK 01 (n) (ex-norwegian M-01 Erhardt)
7.5 cm FK 02/26 (p) (ex polish vz 26, old russian M-00, relined)
7.5 cm FK 17 (t) (ex-czech M-28 Skoda)
7.5 cm FK 97 (p) (ex-polish M-97)
7.5 cm FK 231 (f) (ex-french M-97)
7.5 cm FK 232 (f) (ex french M-97, modified with split trail carriage)
7.5 cm FK 234 (b) (ex-belgian FK-16nA relined to 7.5)
7.5 cm FK 235 (b) (ex-belgian M-05 TR, Krupp design of 1905)
7.5 cm FK 236 (b) (ex-belgian FK-16 nA, relined to 7.5)
7.5 cm FK 237 (i) (ex-italian licence built Krupp M-06)
7.5 cm FK 243 (h) (ex-dutch M-02/04, licence built Krupp M-03)
7.5 cm FK 244 (i) (ex-italian M-11 Deport)
7.5 cm FK 245 (i) (ex-italian M-12, modified M-06)
7.5 cm FK 246 (n) (ex-norwegian M-01 Erhardt)
7.5 cm FK 247 (n) (ex-norwegian M-?)
7.5 cm FK 248 (i) (ex-italian M-37 Ansaldo)
7.5 cm FK 249 (j) (ex-jugoslavian M-12 Skoda)
7.5 cm lFH 255 (i) (ex-italian M-35)


7.62 cm FK 288 (r) (ex–russian M-42/ZIS-3)
7.62 cm FK 288/1 (r) (ex-russian M-41)
7.62 cm FK 290/1 (r) (ex russian M-02/06)
7.62 cm FK 295/1 (r) (ex-russian M-02/30, L/30)
7.62 cm FK 295/2 (r) (ex-russian M-02/30, L/40)
7.62 cm FK 296 (r) (ex-russian M-36, used also as PAK-36 and FK-36)
7.62 cm FK 297 (r) (ex-russian M-39, used also as PAK-39 and FK-39)
7.62 cm FK 305 (r) (ex-russian M-43)
7.62 cm FK 310 (r) (ex-russian M-02/30)

7.65 cm FK 05/08 (ö) (ex-austrian M-05/08 Skoda)
7.65 cm FK 17 (ö) and (t) (ex-austrian and ex-czech M-17 Skoda)
7.65 cm FK 18 (ö) (ex-austrian M-18 Skoda)
7.65 cm FK 300 (j) (ex-jugoslavian M-05/08 Skoda)
7.65 cm FK 303 (j) (ex-jugoslavian M-17 Skoda)
7.65 cm FK 304 (j) (ex-jugoslavian M-28 Skoda)

8.0 cm FK 18/17 (t) (ex-czech M-?)
8.0 cm FK 30 (t) (ex-czech M-30)

8.38 cm FK 271 (e) (ex-british QF 18 pr Mk I-II on carriageMk II PA)
8.38 cm FK 272 (e) (ex-british QF 18 pr Mk I-II on carriage ?)
8.38 cm FK 273 (e) (ex-british QF 18 pr Mk I-II on carriage ?)
8.38 cm FK 274 (e) (ex-british QF 18 pr Mk I-II on carriage ?)
8.38 cm FK 305 (r) (ex-russian 8.5 cm M-43g)

8.76 cm FK 280 (e) (ex-british QF 25 pr Mk II-III)
8.76 cm FK 281 (e) (ex-british QF 25 pr Mk I on carriage Mk IVp )
8.76 cm FK 282 (e) (ex-british QF 25 pr Mk I on carriage Mk Vp)

10.0 cm lFH 14 (ö) (ex-austrian M-14 Skoda)
10.0 cm lFH 14/19 (p) and (t) (ex polish and ex-czech M-14/19 Skoda)
10.0 cm lFH 30 (t) (ex-czech M-30 Skoda)
10.0 cm lFH 315 (j) (ex-jugoslavian M-14 Skoda)
10.0 cm lFH-316 (j) (ex-jugoslavian M-14/19 Skoda)
10.0 cm lFH-317 (j) (ex-jugoslavian M-28 FE)
10.0 cm lFH 318 (g) (ex-greek M-14/19 Skoda)

10.5 cm FK 17 and 17/04 (ö) (ex-austrian M-04/17 or K-17)
10.5 cm FK 29 (p) (ex polish M-29, modified french M-13 Schneider)
10.5 cm K 35 (t) (ex-czech M-35)
10.5 cm FK 320 (i) (ex-italian M-15 Skoda)
10.5 cm lFH 322 (f) (ex-french M-?)
10.5 cm lFH 323 (f) (ex-french M-?)
10.5 cm lFH 324 (f) (ex-french M-34 Schneider)
10.5 cm lFH 325 (f) (ex-french M-35B)
10.5 cm lFH 326 (i) (ex-italian Obice 105/14 Ansaldo)
10.5 cm lFH 327 (b) (ex-belgian Obusier de 105 GP, ex-German lFH16)
10.5 cm FK-331 (f) (ex-french M-13 Schneider)
10.5 cm FK-332 (f) (ex-french M-36 Schneider)
10.5 cm FK 333 (b) (ex-belgian M-13, french M-13 Schneider)
10.5 cm FK 334(h) (ex-dutch 10.5 cm M-?)
10.5 cm FK 335 (h) (ex-dutch M-27 Bofors)
10.5 cm FK 336 (j) (ex-jugoslavian M-13, french M-13)
10.5 cm FK 338 (i) (ex-italian M-13, french M-13)
10.5 cm K 339 (j) (ex-jugoslavian M-36)
10.5 cm K 348 (r) (ex-russian M-?)
10.5 cm K 349 (r) (ex-russian M-?)
10.5 cm K 350 (r) (ex-russian M-?)

10.7 cm K 352 (r) (ex-russian M-10/30)
10.7 cm K 353 (r) (ex-russian M-40)

11.4 cm lFH 361 (e) (ex-british QF 4.5 inch, MkII)
11.4 cm K 365 (e) (ex-british BL 4.5 inch gun Mk II

11.5 cm lFH 362 (r) (ex-russian M-?, british QF 4.5 inch, MkII)

12.0 cm K 370 (b) (ex-belgian canon de 120 L m-31)
12.0 cm lFH 373 (h) (ex-dutch 12 cm L14 Bofors)
12.0 cm lFH 375 (n) (ex-norwegian 12 cm M 09 Rheinmetall)
12.0 cm lFH 376 (n) (ex-norwegian 12 cm M 13 Kongsberg)

12.2 cm sFH 385 (r) (ex-russian M-09/30)
12.2 cm sFH 386 (r) (ex-russian M-09/30g)
12.2 cm sFH 387 (r) (ex-russian M-09/30g)
12.2 cm sFH 388 (r) (ex-russian M-10/30)
12.2 cm K 390/1 (r) (ex-russian M-31)
12.2 cm K 390/2 (r) (ex-russian M-31/37)
12.2 cm sFH 396 (r) (ex-russian M-3

12.7 cm K 382 (e) (ex-british BL 60 pr Mk II)

14.5 cm K 405 (f) (ex-french Canon de 145 L M-16 Saint Chamond)
15.0 cm sFH 14 (ö) and (t) (ex-czech and ex-austrian M-14 Skoda)
15.0 cm sFH 15 (t) and (ö) (ex-czech and ex-austrian M-15 Skoda)
15.0 cm K 15/16 (t) (ex-czech M-15/16 Skoda)
15.0 cm sFH 25 (t) (ex-czech M-25 Skoda)
15.0 cm sFH 37 (t) (ex-czech M-37 Skoda)
15.0 cm sFH 400 (i) (ex-italian Obice da 149/12 M-14 Skoda)
15.0 cm sFH 401 (i) (ex italian Obice da 149/13 Skoda)
15.0 cm sFH 402 (j) (ex-jugoslavian M-36 S, Skoda K-1)
15.0 cm K 403 (j) (ex-jugoslavian M-28 Skoda)
15.0 cm sFH 404 (i) (ex italian Obice da 149/14 M-37)
15.0 cm sFH 406 (h) (ex-dutch sFH-13, German War reparations WW 1)
15.0 cm K 408 (i) (ex-italian Canone da 149/40 M-35)
15.0 cm sFH 409 (b) (ex-belgian sFH-13, German War reparations WW 1)
15.0 cm K 410 (i) (ex-italian Canone da 152/37, Skoda )
15.0 cm K 429 (b) (ex-belgian K-16, German War reparations WW 1)
15.0 cm K 461 (d) (ex-danish M-29 L/22 S, french Obusier M-29)
15.2 cm sFH 407 (h) (ex-dutch Howitzer 6”, british BL 6 inch MK I)
15.2 cm sFH 410 (b) (ex-belgian Obusier de 6”, british BL 6 inch MK I)
15.2 cm sFH 412 (e) and (i) (ex-british BL 6” Mk I and ex-italian Obice da 152/13)
15.2 cm K 433/1 (r) (ex-russian M-37 or ML-20)
15.2 cm K 433/2 (r) (ex-russian M-10/34)
15.2 cm K 435 (r) (ex-russian M-10/30)
15.2 cm K 438 (r) (ex-russian M-10/30)
15.2 cm K 440 (r) (ex-russian M-35 or BR-2)
15.2 cm sFH 443 (r) (ex-russian M-38 or M-10)
15.2 cm sFH 445 (r) (ex-russian M-09/30)
15.2 cm sFH 446 (r) (ex-russian M-10/30)
15.2 cm sFH 449 (r) (ex-russian M-17 Schneider, rebored to 15.2 cm)
15.5 cm sFH 17 (p) (ex-polish M-17, french Canon de 155 C M-17)
15.5 cm sFH 413 (b) (ex-belgian Obusier de 155, french Canon de 155 C M-17)
15.5 cm sFH 414 (f) and (i) (ex-french Canon de 155 C M-17 and ex-italian Canone da 155/14)
15.5 cm sFH 415 (f) (ex-french Canon de 155 C M-15 Saint Chamond)
15.5 cm K 416 (f) and (b) (ex-french Canon de 155 L M-17 Schneider)
15.5 cm K 417 (f) (ex-french Canon de 155 GPF-CA)
15.5 cm K 418 (f) (ex-french Canon de 155 GPF)
15.5 cm K 419 (f) (ex-french Canon de 155 GPF-Touzzard)
15.5 cm K 420 (f) and (i) (ex-french and ex-italian Canon de 155 L M-16 Saint Chamond)
15.5 cm K 422 (f) (ex-french Canon de 155 L M-77/14 Schneider)
15.5 cm K 424 (f) (ex-french Canon de 155 L M-32 Schneider)
15.5 cm K 425 (f) (ex-french Canon de 155 L M-18 Schneider)
15.5 cm K 431 (b) (ex-belgian, french Canon de 155 L M-17 Schneider)
15.5 cm K 432 (b) (ex-belgian canon de 155 L M-24)
15.5 cm K 469 (d) (ex-danish model M-29 L/22 S, rebored to 15.5 cm)
20.3 cm H 503 (r) (ex-russian M-31 or B-4)
21.0 cm Mrs 18 (t) (ex-czech M-1
21.0 cm Mrs 18/19 (t) (ex czech Mrs-18/19, mobile version of the Mrs-1
21.0 cm H 520 (i) (ex-italian Obice da 210/22, M-35)
21.0 cm K 521 (r) (ex-russian BR-17, Skoda built M-39)
22.0 cm Mörser 530 (b) (Mortier de 220 TR M 16 Schneider)
22.0 cm Mörser 531 (f) (Mortier de 220 M 16 Schneider)
22.0 cm K-532 (f) (Canon de 220 L M 17 Schneider)
22.0 cm Mörser 538 (j) and (p) (220 M 28 Skoda)
23.4 cm H 545 (b) (BL 9.2 in Howitzer MkII)
23.4 cm H 546 (e) (BL 9.2 in Howitzer MkII)
24.0 cm K 556 (f) (Canon de 240 L M 84/17 St Chamond)
24.0 cm K 559 (r)
24.0 cm K 564 (r)
24 cm Kanone (t) (First produced in 1916, continues in Czech service after WW 1)
28.0 cm H 601 (f) (Mortier de 280 M 14/16 Schneider)
28.0 cm H 602 (f)
28.0 cm H 607 (r)
30.5 cm H 622 (r)
30.5 cm H 623 (r)
30.5 cm H 638 (t) and (j) (Produced in 1916, kept in service by czech and yugoslavian armies)
30.5 cm H 639 (j) (305 mm M 11/30 Skoda)
42.0 Haubitze (t) (42 cm Hofnice M 17 Skoda, used in Sevastopol siege in 1942)

15.2 cm Haubitze (E) 455 (r) Ex russian Howitzer M 1937 on railway mounting
16.4 cm Kanone (E) 453 (f) Ex french Cannon de 164 M 93/96
16.4 cm Kanone (E) 454 (f) Ex french Cannon de 164 M 93/96
19.4 cm Kanone (E) 93 (f) Ex french Cannon de 194 M 70/93 rayee a gauche
19.4 cm Kanone (E) 486 (f) Ex french Cannon de 194 M 70/93 sur affut tous azimuts
24.0 cm Kanone (E) 556 (f) Ex french Cannon de 240 M84/17 Saint Chamond
24.0 cm Kanone (E) 557 (f) Ex french Cannon de 240 sur affut M 84
24.0 cm Kanone (E) 557/1 (f) Ex french Cannon de 240 sur affut M 17
24.0 cm Kanone (E) 558 (f) Ex french Cannon de 240 sur affut M 93/96
27.4 cm Kanone (E) 592 (f) Ex french Cannon de 274 M 17 sur affut a glisement
27.4 cm Kanone (E) 594 (f) Ex french Cannon de 274 M87/93
28.5 cm Kanone (E) 605 (f) Ex french Cannon de 285 sur affut M 17
30.5 cm Kanone (E) 636 (f) Ex french Cannon de 305 M 93/96
30.5 cm Kanone (E) 637 (f) Ex french Cannon de 305 M 06/10
32.0 cm Kanone (E) 651 (f) Ex french Cannon de 320 M 70/84
32.0 cm Kanone (E) 651/1 (f) Ex french Cannon de 320 M 70/84 with longer chamber
32.0 cm Kanone (E) 652 (f) Ex french Cannon de 320 sur affut M 17
34.0 cm Kanone (E) 673 (f) Ex french Cannon de 340 M 12
34.0 cm Kanone (E) 674 (f) Ex french Cannon de 340 M 12 rayee a 6º
34.0 cm Kanone (E) 675 (f) Ex french Cannon de 340 M 12 rayee a 4º
37.0 cm Haubitze (E) 710 (f) Ex french Howitzer de 370 M 15 Filloux
37.0 cm Haubitze (E) 711 (f) Ex french Howitzer de 370 M 15
37.0 cm Kanone (E) 714 (f) Ex french Cannon de 370 M 75/79
40.0 cm Haubitze (E) 752 (f) Ex french Howitzer de 400 M 15/16
52.0 cm Haubitze (E) 871 (f) Ex french Howitzer de 520 M 16

User avatar
Redbaron1908
Member
Posts: 2023
Joined: 31 Dec 2002 17:52
Location: Texas

Post by Redbaron1908 » 22 Jun 2003 00:55

Was ammunition for these guns also a big problem or not really, due to many diffrent types of weapons?

User avatar
Erik E
Financial supporter
Posts: 4517
Joined: 11 Mar 2002 22:26
Location: Stavanger, Norway

Post by Erik E » 22 Jun 2003 01:06

Was ammunition for these guns also a big problem or not really, due to many diffrent types of weapons?


I guess this is one of the reasons why so many coastal batteries had captured guns = They didn`t have to bring 100`s of different grenades with them in the field.

User avatar
Kugelblitz
Member
Posts: 168
Joined: 16 May 2003 05:08
Location: CE

Post by Kugelblitz » 22 Jun 2003 03:56

I spend a lot of time writing that list, the next time I will wait.. 8O

User avatar
Andy H
Forum Staff
Posts: 14957
Joined: 12 Mar 2002 20:51
Location: UK and USA

Post by Andy H » 23 Jun 2003 17:48

The ammunition issue was the main reason for these guns staying in storage.

Vital materials would be needed (such as Chrome) to be re-directed to make up the ammo for these guns, which would then lead to a shortage in other gun ammo being used by the Wehrmacht.

I've read recently about this and I'll dig out the example.

Andy H

User avatar
Kenshiro
Member
Posts: 151
Joined: 18 May 2003 02:54
Location: Danmark

Post by Kenshiro » 28 Jun 2003 18:03

I see lot of different guns. but what was the differences I mean how effective was all those arillery pieces?

John T
Member
Posts: 1137
Joined: 31 Jan 2003 22:38
Location: Stockholm,Sweden

Post by John T » 28 Jun 2003 20:03

Andy H wrote:The ammunition issue was the main reason for these guns staying in storage.

Vital materials would be needed (such as Chrome) to be re-directed to make up the ammo for these guns, which would then lead to a shortage in other gun ammo being used by the Wehrmacht.

I've read recently about this and I'll dig out the example.

Andy H


Hi
I agree in using them as field arty but to use them as for costal defence is a different matter :)

First I believe that most guns from occupied countries where captured with some ammo.

Secondly old guns are most probably worn guns so the number of rounds that needed to reach "lifetime of investment" was not that big.


So to use the guns in the atlantic wall seems resonable to me,
If the gun is not destroyed before it runs out of ammo, so what?



I base this partly on the Finns experience with a huge number of different guns after the winter war.

Cheers
/John T.

John T
Member
Posts: 1137
Joined: 31 Jan 2003 22:38
Location: Stockholm,Sweden

Danish Arty

Post by John T » 28 Jun 2003 20:16

One related Isssue-
I passed the Danish artillery museeum in Varde some weeks ago
and one sign told that the fate of Danish artillery in German service was unkown.

Is it really so?

The museeum is nice but my previous experience of similar outfits is that the crew may be very good at restoring mechanical devices and remembers a lot about their own time as NCO's but they are not professional historians so to say..


Cheers
/John T.

jpmuikku
Member
Posts: 35
Joined: 03 Jun 2004 21:32
Location: Csongrád, Hungary

Especially the M-30 & M-38 houwitzers in German use

Post by jpmuikku » 08 Jun 2004 21:04

I remember that in this forum there was a listing, that had the number of captured Soviet artillery in the German use c. late 1943. But can’t find the topic, no matter what keywords I use in search. Can any one help me…?
Thanks in advance.

Regards, / J-P

User avatar
Erik E
Financial supporter
Posts: 4517
Joined: 11 Mar 2002 22:26
Location: Stavanger, Norway

Post by Erik E » 08 Jun 2004 23:01

Russisch:

7,62 cm JKH 290(r) - 76-1927 - 225 Stück
7,62 cm FK 295(r) - 76-02/30 - 110 Stück
7,62 cm PAK 36 - 76-36 - 1 Stück
7,62 cm PAK 39 - 76-39 - 359 Stück
7.62 cm Geb.Kan. 307(r) - 76-1938 - 21 Stück
10,7 cm Kan 352(r) - 107-1910/30 - 17 Stück
12,2 cm Le.FH 388(r) - 122-1910/30 - 23 Stück
12,2 cm Kan. 390(r) - 122-1931/37 - 200 Stück
12,2 cm Kan. 396(r) -122-38 - 281 Stück
15,2 cm KH 433(r) -152-1937 - 217 Stück
15,2 cm S.FH 443(r) - 152-1938 - 3 Stück
20,3 cm Haub. 503(r) - 203mm M 1931 - 8 Stück

Total: 1465 Stück

CHRISCHA
Financial supporter
Posts: 2461
Joined: 28 Jan 2003 18:21
Location: England, Kent

Post by CHRISCHA » 10 Jun 2004 18:24

The guns attacked on D-Day at Merville were Czech.

Return to “Fortifications, Artillery, & Rockets”