INFO: Captured artillery in use 1.3-1944

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Erik E
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Post by Erik E » 12 Jul 2003 16:04

Hallo!

About the guns scrapped in Dec.43, there was a decicion called "Rüstungskonzentration" done in May 1943.
The reason for scrapping was lack of ammunition, spareparts and some were worn out....

Numbers in (_)

5cm Grw 203(f) (12739)
6cm Grw 205(r) [998]
6cm Grw 225(f) (727)
8,1cm grw (f) (484)
10,7cm Geb.Grw 328(r) (224)
17cm Grw M15 [18]
22cm Minenwerfer M17(j) (54)
26cm Minenwerfer M17(t) (6)

2,5cm Pak 112+113(f) (22)
3,7cm IK 152(f) (33)
5,7cm Pak 208(r) (9)
7,5cm FK M8(g) (47)
7,5cm FK 239(j) (60)
7,5cm FK 294(j) [48]
7,5cm Geb.K 228(b) (3)
7,62cm FK 294(r) [78]
7,62cm Geb.K 307(r) (104)
7.62cm Geb.k 293(r) (73)
8,5cm K.Haub. 287(g) (5)
10,5cm Geb.H 323(f) (5)
10.7cm K352(r) (167)
10,7cm K353(r) [8]
11,4cm Le.FH 362(r) (46)
11,4cm Le.FH 361(r) (9)
12cm Le.FH 373(h) (33)
12,2cm Le.FH 386(r) (314)
12,2cm Le.FH 388(r) (1812)
15cm S.FH(t) + (ö) (34)
15cm S.FH 409(b) (34)
15,2cm K483(r) (65)
15,2cm S.FH 443(r) (381)
15,2cm S.FH 445(r) (921)
15,2cm S.FH 446(r) (14)
15,2cm S.FH 415(f) [108]
20,3cm Haub.503(f) [38]
20,3cm Mrs 523(a) (19)
22cm K532(f) (3)
27,4cm K W(E)93/96(f) (4)
28cm Mrs 602(f) (23)
30,5cm Mrs 639(j) (2)
32cm K(E) 652(f) (4)
34cm K(E) (f) (2)
37cm K(E) 714(f) (4)

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Erik E
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Post by Erik E » 12 Jul 2003 16:10

German artillery 1.9.1939
Numbers in (_)
(E) 0 Eisenbahn (Railway art.)

2cm Kwk30.... (1586)
2cm Flak30 .... (897)
3,7cm Kwk .... (380)
7,5cm Kwk .... (182)
3,7cm Flak .... (83)
3,7cm Pak .... (10411)
7,5cm Flak14 .... (24)
7,5cm Le.iG 18 .... (2768]
7,5cm Geb.G 18 .... (115)
7,5cm Geb.K14+15 ....(254)
7,5cm FK16 n/a ....(298]
7,5cm Geb.G 36 .... (213)
7,5cm Le.FK 18 .... (20)
8,8cm Flak18 ....(100)
10cm K17 .... (66)
10cm K18 .... (402)
10,5cm K16 .... (28]
10,5cm I.FH16+18 ....(4862)
15cm S.IG 33 .... (382)
15cm S.FH18+13 .... (2408]
15cm K18 .... (25)
15cm K(E) .... (8]
17cm K(E) .... (24)
21cm Mrs .... (33)
24cm K3 .... (4)
28cm K5(E) .... (1)
21cm K12(E) .... (1)
21cm Mrs ....(28]
24cm SK L/50 .... (2)
24cm Theodor K(E) .... (3)
24cm Th.Br.K(E) ....(6)
28cm Kz.Br.K(E) ....(8]
28cm Ig.Br.K(E) ....(3)
28cm S.Br.K(E) .... (2)
30,6cm SK L/50 .... (2)

Total: .... (25629)

Captured artillery 1.9.1939
Numbers in (_)

3,7cm Pak M37(t) .... (883)
3,7cm Kwk M34(t) .... (230)
3,7cm Kwk M38(t) .... (160)
4,7cm Pak(t) .... (76)
8cm FK 30(t) .... (184)
8,35cm Flak 22(t) .... (115)
10cm I.FH 14/19(t) .... (382)
10cm I.FH 30(t) .... (127)
10,5cm K35(t) .... (59)
14,9cm S.FH15(t) .... (42)
15cm S.FH25(t) .... (219)
15cm S.FH37(t) .... (118]
15cm K15/16(t) .... (10)
21cm Mrs(t) .... (18]
24cm K(t) .... (6)
24cm H-39(t) .... (1)
30,5cm Mrs(t) .... (17)

Total: ....(2647)

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Redbaron1908
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Post by Redbaron1908 » 12 Jul 2003 17:45

This is indeed very intresting. With a huge number of captured guns how did the germans manage to make ammunition for all of them?

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kfbr392
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Re:

Post by kfbr392 » 15 Dec 2010 13:20

Erik E wrote:German artillery 1.9.1939
Numbers in (_)
(E) 0 Eisenbahn (Railway art.)

2cm Kwk30.... (1586)
2cm Flak30 .... (897)
3,7cm Kwk .... (380)
7,5cm Kwk .... (182)
3,7cm Flak .... (83)
3,7cm Pak .... (10411)
7,5cm Flak14 .... (24)
7,5cm Le.iG 18 .... (2768]
7,5cm Geb.G 18 .... (115)
7,5cm Geb.K14+15 ....(254)
7,5cm FK16 n/a ....(298]
7,5cm Geb.G 36 .... (213)
7,5cm Le.FK 18 .... (20)
8,8cm Flak18 ....(100)
10cm K17 .... (66)
10cm K18 .... (402)
10,5cm K16 .... (28]
10,5cm I.FH16+18 ....(4862)
15cm S.IG 33 .... (382)
15cm S.FH18+13 .... (2408]
15cm K18 .... (25)
15cm K(E) .... (8]
17cm K(E) .... (24)
21cm Mrs .... (33)
24cm K3 .... (4)
28cm K5(E) .... (1)
21cm K12(E) .... (1)
21cm Mrs ....(28]
24cm SK L/50 .... (2)
24cm Theodor K(E) .... (3)
24cm Th.Br.K(E) ....(6)
28cm Kz.Br.K(E) ....(8]
28cm Ig.Br.K(E) ....(3)
28cm S.Br.K(E) .... (2)
30,6cm SK L/50 .... (2)
Greetings Erik,

what are your sources for your list of artillery on 01.09.1939?
I found some differing numbers in Fritz Hahn's "Waffen und Geheimwaffen" and will post them here.
Differences are often very small. It could be the numbers that were delivered by industry in August 1939 but yet registered with the Heer.
Also, do you have detailled monthly deliveries of all weapons throughout the war as well as the number of captured guns in use an some point in 1941, 1942 and 1943?


German artillery 1.9.1939
Erik E's Numbers in (_), Fritz Hahn's "Waffen und Geheimwaffen" numbers in [_]
(E) 0 Eisenbahn (Railway art.)

2cm Kwk30.... (1586)
2cm Flak30 .... (897)
3,7cm Kwk .... (380)
7,5cm Kwk .... (182)
3,7cm Flak .... (83)
3,7cm Pak .... (10411) [11200]
7,5cm Flak14 .... (24)
7,5cm Le.iG 18 .... (2768) [2933, likely includes numbers for 7,5cm Geb.G 18]
7,5cm Geb.G 18 .... (115)
7,5cm Geb.K14+15 ....(254)
7,5cm FK16 n/a ....(298)
7,5cm Geb.G 36 .... (213)
7,5cm Le.FK 18 .... (20)
8,8cm Flak18 ....(100)
10cm K17 .... (66)
10cm K18 .... (402) [702]
10,5cm K16 .... (28]
10,5cm I.FH16+18 ....(4862) [4845] Do you have a breakdown between leFH 16's and leFH 18's?
15cm S.IG 33 .... (382) [410]
15cm S.FH18+13 .... (2408) [696 s.FH 13 & 1353 s.FH 18] Could the delta be s.FH 36's?
15cm K16 .... (?) [28]
15cm K18 .... (25)
15cm K(E) .... (8)
17cm K(E) .... (24)
21cm Mrs .... (33)
24cm K3 .... (4)
28cm K5(E) .... (1)
21cm K12(E) .... (1)
21cm Mrs ....(28)
24cm SK L/50 .... (2)
24cm Theodor K(E) .... (3)
24cm Th.Br.K(E) ....(6)
28cm Kz.Br.K(E) ....(8)
28cm Ig.Br.K(E) ....(3)
28cm S.Br.K(E) .... (2)
30,6cm SK L/50 .... (2)

nuyt
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Re: INFO: Captured artillery in use 1.3-1944

Post by nuyt » 15 Dec 2010 20:27

I wonder if these data from 1939 are correct. The numbers of the lFH18 and sFH18 could be way to high.
See also:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/330333/t ... ry+weapons

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kfbr392
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Re: INFO: Captured artillery in use 1.3-1944

Post by kfbr392 » 16 Dec 2010 12:22

Nuyt, thanks for this post on the thread you linked to above:
nuyt wrote:There were 7 artillery regiments in the 1920s, one for each division.
Each had 3 battalions of 3 batteries makes 7x3x3x4 guns = 7x36 = 252 guns, 77mm and 105mm. Not counting mountain guns and infantry guns.
In 1927 there was a secret stock of 600 light guns and 75 heavy (Wohlfeil/Dollinger - Die Deutsche Reichswehr, p 177), with little improvement in 1930. From 1933 emphasis was on acquisition of AT guns, heavy pieces and FLAK.

Spielberger's Motorisierung der Reichswehr mentions the development of the A-Heer which forewaw the forming of 21 divisions out of the original 7. In 1930 65% of the equipment of these new divisions was available. So this would include weapons for two thirds of the artillery regiments needed (21), makes 14 regiments makes 14x3x3x4=504 pieces.

But Hans Mehl mentions two figures for the 10,5cm lFH 16 in his two land gun books:

910 pieces in september 1932
980 pieces in 1937

and

sFH 13 on 01.09.1939 = 696 pieces (Fritz Hahn "Waffen und Geheimwaffen des deutschen Heeres 1933-1945" Bernard & Graefe, 1986).

If one third of the Reichswehr artillery had been 10,5cm lFH then the stock of this 1916 weapon miraculously grew from 84 in 1920s, via 168 in 1930 to over 900 in 1932.
Let's suppose a third of the mentioned secret 600 piece stock was the 10,5cm lfh then stocks would have grown from 284 in 1927 to 910 in 1932.
If all of those 600 secret weapons were 10,5cm lfh than stocks would still grow from 684 in 1927 to 910 5 years later!

Anybody?
Source: http://www.network54.com/Forum/330333/t ... ry+weapons
and this one:
nuyt wrote:From the Czechosloval inventory
MINOMETY : 1 167

8 cm minomet vz. 36 : 902
14 cm minomet vz. 18 : 240 z toho na Slovensku - 24
26 cm tký minomet vz. 17 : 25 z toho na Slovensku - 2

PROTITANKOVÉ KANONY : 780

3.7 cm kanon vz. 34 PÚV : 332
3.7 cm kanon vz. 37 PÚV : 458

POLNÍ DLA : 2 230

3.7 cm kanon MacLean : 7 z toho na Slovensku - 7
3.7 cm kanon Puteaux : 6
6 cm lodní kanon vz. 30 : 2 z toho na Slovensku - 2
7.5 cm francouzský kanon vz. 1897 : 38 z toho na Slovensku - 38
7.5 cm ínský kanon vz. 14 : 6 z toho na Slovensku - 4
7.5 cm horský kanon vz. 15 : 235 z toho na Slovensku 112
7.5 cm kanon d/28 : 12
8 cm lehký kanon vz. 5/8 : 86 z toho na Slovensku - 21
8 cm kanon vz. 17 : 267 z toho na Slovensku - 106
8 cm kanon vz. 30 : 204 z toho na Slovensku - 14
10 cm lehká houfnice vz. 14/19 : 605 z toho na Slovensku 221
10 cm lehká houfnice vz. 30 : 165 z toho na Slovensku 32 + 21 kus na zaátku roku 1939
10 cm horská houfnice vz. 16/19 : 44
z toho na Slovensku 41
10.5 cm hrubý kanon vz. 35 : 106 z toho na Slovensku 40
15 cm hrubá houfnice vz. 14/16 : 128 z toho na Slovensku 84
15 cm hrubá houfnice vz. 25 : 340 z toho na Slovensku 113
15 cm tká houfnice vz. 15 : 43
15 cm tký kanon vz. 15 a 15/16 : 11

PROTILETADLOVÁ DLA 250

7.5 cm kanon PL vz. 37 4 + dalích 100 kus bhem roku 1939 - od dubna
8.35 cm kanon PL vz. 22 : 144 z toho na Slovensku 29
- nejrozíenjí PL kanon v CS armád
8 cm kanon PL vz. 5/8 : 4 na Slovensku
8 cm kanon PL vz. 14 : 3
8 cm kanon PL vz. 37 : 97 z toho na Slovensku 1
9 cm kanon PL vz. 12/20 : 20

PROTILETADLOVÝ KULOMET (VKPL) - Velkorání kulomet proti letadlm
20 mm vz. 36 : 229 z toho na Slovensku 64

TKÁ DLA: 40

21 cm tký modí vz. 18 : 18
24 cm tký kanon vz. 16 : 6

Source:
http://www.palba.cz/viewtopic.php?t=384&highlight=skoda
30.5 cm tký modí vz. 16 : 16
Regarding production of leFH 18 and sFH 18 and sFH 36:
http://www.sturmvogel.orbat.com/GermWeapProd.html gives the following production figures from August-December 1939:
leFH/FK 18:
47 83 137 134 137
heavy 15cm sFH 18:
62 51 64 35 40

I would say that the average monthly production of the guns in the spring of 1939 could have been about 110 leFH and 50 sFH. The drop in August and September figures for the leFH could be because of workers in those factories being called up as soldiers for the Polish campaign.

Since both guns were designed before 1935 and in production since that year, assuming production had run for 50 months by 01.09.39 and accounting for a steady (?) increase of production during those months, I find it plausible that
3865 leFH 18
1353 sFH 18 and (2408-696-1353=)
359 sFH 36
had been produced by 01.09.39.

Who has the yearly pre-war figures?

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schwarzermai
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Re:

Post by schwarzermai » 21 May 2013 18:33

Erik E wrote:Hallo!

About the guns scrapped in Dec.43, there was a decicion called "Rüstungskonzentration" done in May 1943.
The reason for scrapping was lack of ammunition, spareparts and some were worn out....
hello

it was no decision .... just a offer - and in may 1944 the general of artillery offer it again and he dont know what or if something was scrapped yet

uwe
viewtopic.php?f=70&t=112552&start=195#p2028003

My Bookproject: "Organisationsgeschichte der deutschen Heeresartillerie im II. Weltkrieg"

http://balsi.de/Heeresartillerie/

Rui
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Re:

Post by Rui » 09 Feb 2016 18:31

Erik E wrote:Hallo!

About the guns scrapped in Dec.43, there was a decicion called "Rüstungskonzentration" done in May 1943.
The reason for scrapping was lack of ammunition, spareparts and some were worn out....

Numbers in (_)


17cm Grw M15 [18]
22cm Minenwerfer M17(j) (54)
26cm Minenwerfer M17(t) (6)

(...)

20,3cm Mrs 523(a) (19)
Pulling this thread back from the dead... :lol:

Do anyone know, what weapon was:

17cm Grw M15
22cm Minenwerfer M17(j) [or perhaps it's a typo, being a Yugoslav weapon of the 26cm Minenwerfer M17(t)?]
20,3cm Mrs 523(a) [perhaps another typo? Nineteen siege howitzers captured from the Americans before December 1943?! :o ]
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T. Jentz - "Becker Funnies": All Vehicles Converted by Alfred Becker
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Clive Mortimore
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Re: Re:

Post by Clive Mortimore » 09 Feb 2016 21:57

Rui wrote: Pulling this thread back from the dead... :lol:

Do anyone know, what weapon was:

17cm Grw M15
22cm Minenwerfer M17(j) [or perhaps it's a typo, being a Yugoslav weapon of the 26cm Minenwerfer M17(t)?]
20,3cm Mrs 523(a) [perhaps another typo? Nineteen siege howitzers captured from the Americans before December 1943?! :o ]
Were these 8 inch howitzers US built Mk7s that had been sold on after WW1 by the US or the British. This was British design built in the USA.The British used US built guns in both WW1 and WW2. Were they captured from the BEF after the fall of France?

The Russians/Soviets also used this gun in both wars, but I believe these were British built guns.
Clive

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