HKB Pernelle I

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Manuferey
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Re: HKB Pernelle I

Post by Manuferey » 21 Dec 2022 21:21

Manuferey wrote:
17 Dec 2022 16:26
pvv8 wrote:
12 Dec 2022 17:01
On multiple websites I read that HKB Pernelle I ( La Pernelle ) was also called by the Germans "La Pinoterie " has somebody proof of that ?
Because I find that strange, the word has something to do with wine / grapes and also not frequently used in French, I think...

Patrick
Hi Patrick,

C'est la batterie de Morsalines (6./1261) qui était installée près du lieu dit La Pinoterie (on peut d'ailleurs voir la route La Pinoterie sur Google Map, elle longe la batterie au sud-ouest). Cette localisation fut énoncée au départ dans le gros livre Album Memorial Atlantikwall 1940-1944 d'Alain Chazette, paru en 1984 aux Editions Heimdal, livre qui fut longtemps la bible des bunkerarchéologues et dont les cartes des batteries furent reprises pendant plusieurs décades dans les sites sur l'Atlantikwall. L'information a été reprise ensuite par Alain Chazette dans son livre de 1989, toujours aux Editions Heimdal, 1944: Le Mur de l'Atlantique en Normandie.

Par ailleurs, je pense que Pinoterie vient plutôt du nom propre Pinot qui aurait été celui du propriétaire de la ferme qui donne sur la route de la Pinoterie il y a longtemps.

Emmanuel
It is actually the Morsalines battery (6/1261) that was positioned near La Pinoterie (one can indeed see a Route de la Pinoterie on Google Map, it borders the battery to the southwest). This location was mentioned first in the big book "Album Memorial Atlantikwall 1940-1944 by Alain Chazette, edited in 1984 at Editions Heimdal, a book that was the bible of bunkerarcheologists for a long time and from which many maps of batteries were taken and reproduced in sites about the Atlantikwall for several decades. This information was again mentioned by Alain Chazette in its 1989 book at Editions Heimdal, 1944: Le Mur de l'Atlantique en Normandie.

Separately, I think that Pinoterie comes instead from the last name Pinot , which could have been the last name of the owner of the farm which borders the route de la Pinoterie long time ago.

Emmanuel

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Manuferey
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Re: HKB Pernelle I

Post by Manuferey » 21 Dec 2022 21:29

Manuferey wrote:
17 Dec 2022 16:46
moonraker wrote:
16 Dec 2022 11:33
hello Pvv8
Just the time to return my house ! So the document from bauprogram (1/44) with this name "hessen". for info I have never seen "the pinoterie" noted on any German document ?

Me belfra-team
D'après un document allemand d'octobre 1943, c'est seulement à cette date que la batterie Hessen fut baptisée ainsi lorsqu'elle est devenue une batterie permanente et transférée dans la région de La Pernelle, étant auparavant désignée "Geraete Batterie Fort du Roule". Au même moment, la "Geraete Batterie Cosqueville" fut rebaptisée Batterie Thueringen donc aussi avec un nom de Land allemand.

A noter qu'il existait une batterie Hessen près de Aalesund en Norvège dès 1941, la HKB 33/976 Hessen. Elle aussi était équipée de canons de 10.5 cm K331(f). Mais il semble que le nom Hessen était local, probablement en lien avec l'île d'Hessa.

Emmanuel
According to a German document from October 1943, it was at that time that the battery was given the name Hessen as it became a permanent battery et was transferred near La Pernelle. It was previously named "Geraete Batterie Fort du Roule". At the same time, "Geraete Batterie Cosqueville" became Batterie Thueringen, also bearing the name of German Land.

Note that there was a battery named Hessen near Aalesund in Norway as early as 1941: HKB 33/976 Hessen. It was also armed with 10.5 cm K331(f) guns. However, the name Hessen could have been local, possibly linked to the island of Hessa nearby.

Emmanuel

pvv8
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Re: HKB Pernelle I

Post by pvv8 » 22 Dec 2022 09:19

Thanks Emmanuel,
For me it was no problem to read it in French but I can imagine that it's not the case for everybody...

Could it be possible that a lot of names were changed at that time in Normandy and if so is there some kind of list available ?

best regards
patrick

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Manuferey
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Re: HKB Pernelle I

Post by Manuferey » 22 Dec 2022 21:31

Hi Patrick,

I am not aware of a dedicated German list of changed names of batteries. One would have to do it on purpose today.

Emmanuel

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Re: HKB Pernelle I

Post by pvv8 » 23 Dec 2022 11:30

You never know :D , thx Emmanuel

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