The ultimate fortification thread!

Erik E · Post by **Erik E** » 23 Jul 2003 19:09

Hallo!

This looks really good after just 24 hours

Thanks for helping Dan! As you probably realized, I was thinking of you in the opening message

Is it possible to obtain plan layouts of different types of bunkers?

Yes it is indedde possible! I have layouts of atlesat 5-600 different types, so just tell what you want!

When was the first German WWII era bunker constructed, and where?

Well, it would be before ww2, but I guess you mean Third reich era? Difficult one! The year would probably be 1936, somewhere on the western border of Germany.

What was a bunkers greatest weakness?

In addition to Dan`s anwer, I would say armoured steelplates.... On the Westwall, most of the plates we saw were destroyed by shelling.

" B-werk"
These massive constructions with 43 rooms had greater propaganda value, then combat value. They were indeed small fortresses, with 2 sechsschsrtenturm, flamethrower and m-19. They were manned by ca 80 soldiers, and could keep up the battle for several weeks. It had it`s own generators, watersupply, air cleaning+++. However, it was built in strenght "B" so the roof was 2 meters thick. I guess this would stop most artillery attacks. I have some detailed drawings of the inside if you`re interested

Here is a rare photo from my visit to the last B-werk, located in Besseringen on the former Westwall. Two MG copulars, and one observation copular in one photo! The only possible location on earth

Korbius · Post by **Korbius** » 23 Jul 2003 19:26

Greetings Erik, do you by any chance know how long it would take to build a R-636 bunker on any bunker that size?

Dan Mouritzsen · Post by **Dan Mouritzsen** » 24 Jul 2003 00:34

Hi

Do you guys know that if you today take the same amount of concrete, as used by the Germans to build runways and bunkers here in Denmark in WWII. You can start constructing a massive concrete wall 2 meters high and 50 centimetres thick in the northern most part of Jutland (Skagen) in Denmark and you will first run out of concrete 87 Km. south of the Spanish border?

Regards

Dan Mouritzsen

A-Bomb · Post by **A-Bomb** » 24 Jul 2003 04:38

http://www.thirdreichforum.com/viewtopi ... maha+beach

Info on Omaha bunkers.

daveh · Post by **daveh** » 24 Jul 2003 12:57

What would you recommend as the best english source of information on

1) Westwall
2) Atlantic Wall
3) Fortifications in Italy Gustav and Gothic Lines especially.
4) Fortifications in the East eg the Panther Line

Did the bunkers built in Italy as part of the Gustav and Gothic lines follow the plans of West wall or Atlantic wall bunkers? or were they a seperate series?

Eric when are you going to publish your photos and plans?

Erik E · Post by **Erik E** » 24 Jul 2003 15:10

I have a question does anyone know how the defensive lines were structured? For example the Maginot line what kind of bunker did the have at the front and which ones at the back.

I am not familiar with the French names or numbers used in Maginot...
Usually, the backside had a big entrance, covered by AT and MG bunkers.
The entrance leads via tunnels to several "blocks" which contained mg`s, mortars, artilley anti-tank guns+++ The most impessive bunkers I have seen there is definately the triple artilley casemates, but the retractable turrets are very nice aswell

The main difference between Maginot and Westwall, is that the Germans only constructed single bunkers. Many of them were prepared to be connected to tunnels, but it was never done. Everything was organised in different lines. Frontline, artillery line, and flak lines. In France, it was more like small fortresses organised in a line.

Erik

Erik E · Post by **Erik E** » 24 Jul 2003 15:46

how long it would take to build a R-636 bunker

This would ofcourse depend on how many workers, terrain, rocks, sand+++. I have only a few examples, but it might give you a clue:

Construction of a 636 in HKB 18/978 started late in 1943. The camouflage was added in July next year. This sets the construction time to atleast 8 months.

The 636 on the photo was started around January-45.
As you see, they didn`t do much for the remaining 4 months. Maybe becouse of little equipment, or personell.....

Erik E · Post by **Erik E** » 24 Jul 2003 15:48

What would you recommend as the best english source

I have only one English book, the rest is in German!

Anyway, I would recommend the books of Rudi Rolf. As far as I know, some of his titles is also available in English.

Erik

Korbius · Post by **Korbius** » 24 Jul 2003 16:39

Erik E wrote: The 636 on the photo was started around January-45.
As you see, they didn`t do much for the remaining 4 months. Maybe becouse of little equipment, or personell.....

That's a very interesting picture. Do you have any other images of unfinished bunkers by the end of the war?

Rich Yankowski · Post by **Rich Yankowski** » 24 Jul 2003 21:50

I really think I need to wear my glasses more often!I thought the post read "The Ultimate Fornication Thread"!!

Got my interest real quick!!!

I think my favorite bunkers were the ones made with early Panther tank turrents.Seems like a great way to use out-dated surplus.Besides Italy,where else were these type of bunkers used?And besides the Panther(and Renault and FT-17 types),what other turrents were used?Were there ever ones made from Pz IV's or Tiger 1's?

Korbius · Post by **Korbius** » 24 Jul 2003 22:16

Rich Yankowski wrote:And besides the Panther(and Renault and FT-17 types),what other turrents were used?Were there ever ones made from Pz IV's or Tiger 1's?

Usually from of Pz IIs, Pz 38ts and S-35s turrets, including the Renault R-35, FT-17s and Panther turrets you mentioned.

Mark V · Post by **Mark V** » 24 Jul 2003 23:16

Rich Yankowski wrote:Seems like a great way to use out-dated surplus.

Hi Rich,

I think those Panther turrets look cool - but i am not sure were they really worth the material and cost...

outdated surplus and Panther turret (+ perfectly good 7.5cm KwK-42) in same contex ??

Mark V

Ebusitanus · Post by **Ebusitanus** » 25 Jul 2003 00:15

All this concrete is fine and well but I for one am much more interested in the types of field fortifications build my the Germans on the Eastern front. Do you have pictures, a website or something I could get information over?

Dan Mouritzsen · Post by **Dan Mouritzsen** » 25 Jul 2003 00:26

Hi Ebusitanus

Haven’t got that book from Amazon yet

Regards

Dan Mouritzsen

Rich Yankowski · Post by **Rich Yankowski** » 25 Jul 2003 01:03

Mark V,wouldn't the gun be relatively cheap and easy to produce(compared to a complete turrent anyway)?

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