Panzer/Arty Shell Cases

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gavmeister13
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Panzer/Arty Shell Cases

Post by gavmeister13 » 03 Oct 2003 21:01

What happened to all the panzer/arty shell cases after battles?

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Christoph Awender
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Post by Christoph Awender » 03 Oct 2003 21:05

Collected by the Tross units and sent back home with the returning supply trains.

\Christoph

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Starinov
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Post by Starinov » 03 Oct 2003 21:16

Sorry for the stupid question but what is a Tross unit and what was its purpose? Thank

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Christoph Awender
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Post by Christoph Awender » 03 Oct 2003 21:29

Tross means all units which are responsible to supply a unit or transport equipment of it. For example each (more or less) company had a Gepäck-Tross (luggage transport) a Verpflegungstross (field kitchen) a Gefechtstroß (transport of heavy equipment, ammo etc..).

\Christoph

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gavmeister13
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Post by gavmeister13 » 03 Oct 2003 23:16

so they were sent back to Germany to be reused?

regards

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Christoph Awender
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Post by Christoph Awender » 03 Oct 2003 23:19

gavmeister13 wrote:so they were sent back to Germany to be reused?

regards


Yes.

\Christoph

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De Ruyter
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Hi there!

Post by De Ruyter » 05 Oct 2003 16:33

Good evening!

Christoph is right about what he says, but, not all shell casings were re-used!

For example the shell casings for the Pak 40 anti tank gun were often fouled to much for any effective recycling. But, as Christoph says, most of the shell casings for artillery of light and medium calibre were collected and used again!

regards,
Dustin

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gavmeister13
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Post by gavmeister13 » 05 Oct 2003 21:17

why were the shells too fouled up to be reused? sorry, i dont know much bout arty.

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De Ruyter
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Pressure!

Post by De Ruyter » 07 Oct 2003 20:37

Hi again!

The tremendous... I should say ENORMOUS pressure that builds up inside the barrel of a high velocity anti tank gun f.ex. could easily deform the shell casings. This meant that it would take a lot of recalibrating and time consuming measurements to get them back in high quality working condition again!

Of course the spent shell casings could always be melted down and used again as new casings etc.

Regards,
Dustin

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Starinov
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Post by Starinov » 07 Oct 2003 21:24

Thanks Christoph

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Xavier
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s

Post by Xavier » 07 Oct 2003 21:33

as De Ruyter correctly states, shell cases deform and expand and this has a purpose:

to seal gases:

shell casings are made mainly of brass for this reason. late in the war, in the mp44 ammo, steel was used, (due to brass shortages) but coated with lacquer, to the same effect, to seal. a shell must expand some amount to completely seal the expanding gases that occur when firing.

the mechanical lock of the shell/breech/barrel is not gas tight due to the always eroding surfaces in a gun.

also, it is not difficult to re-size a shell, as most people familiar with ammo reloading know, just a couple steps, to clean loose debris on the mouth and another step to re-size mouth.

I use a go/no-go gauge, in the first step, this way, only cases whitin my parameters are re-used (read: the ones with less work).

regards

Xavier
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De Ruyter
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Well stated!

Post by De Ruyter » 08 Oct 2003 18:19

hi there everyone concerned!

nice to see someone who knows a little about metal, ha ha... I work with stuff like that and the knowledge can some times seem unbearable when not shared!

So... everyone... PLEASE!!! MORE QUESTIONS ON EXPANDING METAL!!! :lol:

Have a nice day!

Regards,
Dustin

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Re: s

Post by Mark V » 08 Oct 2003 19:55

Xavier wrote:shell casings are made mainly of brass for this reason. late in the war, in the mp44 ammo, steel was used, (due to brass shortages) but coated with lacquer, to the same effect, to seal. a shell must expand some amount to completely seal the expanding gases that occur when firing.


It was exception to rule to have German small-arms or arty cartridge case made of brass in late-war. Many were steel already in early war years (or even prewar). Germans knew perfectly well that copper would be scarce material during any possible future conflict and weapons and ammunition were designed according to that ***.

For example standard 7.92 x 57 Mauser ammo was practically all-steel: a steel jacketed bullet (lead-cored) with steel case. Later they were able almost completely replace also the lead in bullet core with steel, there was only thin lead sleeve between steel jacket and core. True archievements were the 9mm Para and 7.92 Kurz ammo (some) of which used sintered iron bullets with steel cases - only neglicable amounts of scarce materials were used. Rounds were almost completely made of steel, smokeless powder and lead azide.

In those amounts that ammunition for small-arms and artillery was made during WW2 saved gram of strategic material per round was a big matter.

Also Soviets used rare metals rationally.... others more or less wasted expensive aluminum, copper and lead in their ammunition. But OK, maybe they could afford it.


Mark V


*** there were though some weapons that had hard time function with steel cases - for example 8.8cm FlaK 41, and so brass cases was used.

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Xavier
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..

Post by Xavier » 08 Oct 2003 21:54

correct, as you mention, late in the war.... (mostly)

also, something I forgot to add in my last post: (perhaps most important considering the weather in europe:

Corrosion.

Steel (when unlackered, or treated) corrodes more easily than brass.

regards

Xavier
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