47 mm PAK36(t) and MG08 adapted for bunkers - Schematics

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LegalAssassin
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47 mm PAK36(t) and MG08 adapted for bunkers - Schematics

Post by LegalAssassin » 29 Oct 2003 13:36

I'm having a real hard time finding schematics/blueprints/good photos of the PAK36(t) and the MG08 adapted for use in bunkers on the Westwall.

I would really love to know if anyone in here has got access to such a gun or maybe blueprints/schematics of one.

The reason for asking is that I'm planning on making 3D models of them, so top/side/front schematics would make it much easier on me. And yes, I have tried the library ;)

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Aufklarung
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Post by Aufklarung » 29 Oct 2003 16:22

Hi
I'm sure someone will be along, to help you, shortly. In the meantime:
http://www.geocities.com/wmfanr1/Bunker-modelling.htm
http://users.skynet.be/bs903065/casempak.htm (read French?)
Image

regards
A :)

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LegalAssassin
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Post by LegalAssassin » 29 Oct 2003 16:37

Thanks for the help, but those links are already in my bookmarks... And I don't read french, but I'm learning all the time :)

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LegalAssassin
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Post by LegalAssassin » 30 Oct 2003 18:30

I take it nobody knows or everyone's busy. Worth a shot :)

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Erik E
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Post by Erik E » 30 Oct 2003 19:06

Never seen such a gun "for real"
I have visited several bunkers which once had one of these, so if you need photos of the front plate, I can help :)

Erik

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LegalAssassin
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Post by LegalAssassin » 30 Oct 2003 19:15

Well, any help I can get is great!

Almost all of the reference available for them are the WW1 versions (MG08 and MG08/15), which doesn't help me much. I've searched this forum, but I get the same things I already have.

Edit: That's the fairly mobile version, not the one adapted for bunkers, which is the one I need.

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Erik E
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Post by Erik E » 30 Oct 2003 19:29

Probably not much help.......

The first photo is the front of a R-676. The armoured plate could be lifted up to cover the barrel (Wiresystem inside)

The second photo is infact nothing more than a wall! But an interesting detail is the hole for the empty shells infront of it!

The last photo is also a R-676, but without the armored protection plate.
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Post by LegalAssassin » 31 Oct 2003 01:01

Are you sure that the "trench" in front of the hole is for the shells?

I've come under the impression that it's for rainwater, as I've seen what happens to a bunker with the hatch open... From what I've been able to tell, most if not all guns used in a bunker threw the shells inside the bunker, resulting in a huge pile next to the crew.

Anyway, thanks for the help, where are these bunkers situated?

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Erik E
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Post by Erik E » 31 Oct 2003 01:21

If you look at the drawing of the gun you will see a tube leading from the gun, down into the floor, and outside. This tube was used to get rid of the empty shells to prevent these piles!
You will find the same system in other German artillery bunkers, like the R-671. Btw, the German name for this interesting detail is "Hülsengrube"
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Post by Erik E » 31 Oct 2003 01:24

Forgot to say that the first 676 is located in Måløy (Where the raid took place in 1941) And the two others are around Stavanger in SW Norway

Erik

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Post by Erik E » 31 Oct 2003 01:40

While speaking of collecting empty shells, here is an MG mounting with possobillity to attach a bag to collect all the empty shells!
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Post by LegalAssassin » 31 Oct 2003 15:05

That makes sense, pretty much, but on other bunkers (i e Regelbau 16, Baustärke 1 on the Westwall), where the ditches are bigger, I'm quite sure it's to prevent the bunker from flooding.

Though as the shells might not have been very important when you were still fighting and didn't rust that easy, I wouldn't be surprised if the Germans built a lot of two-in-one solutions.

Interesting, but now, back on topic :)

I know that these blueprints are impossible to find, but if anyone has any clues to where I might find them, I'd like to know :)

(Btw, I really like the picture of the inside mount!)

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Post by Erik E » 31 Oct 2003 17:27

Interesting, but now, back on topic


Just wanted to add that the whole Regelbau series from 1-700 had a drainage system. There are atleast 1000 different bunkers without the hülsengrube, and they didn`t flood.......

There has to be a outlet from the grube aswell, and I bet that is connected to the same dranigesystem as you will find in the entrance!

On some Pak-bunkers, like the 506a, the hülsengrube also functioned as a grenade trap (A pipe from the oven was connected, so if a grenade weas thrown inside, it would explode in the "grube"). If this was small, it would be destroyed!

Sorry for dragging your post off topic :roll:
Erik

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