60cm-Mörser Karl

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KALEVALA
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60cm-Mörser Karl

Post by KALEVALA » 01 Nov 2003 13:33

I was reading that germans made 6 Mörsers to war.
One is in museum in russia what happenned to other
five during the war??
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Focke Wulf
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Post by Focke Wulf » 01 Nov 2003 18:00

I know that the one used in Sebestapol was sent to Paris in July 1944 but was never used.

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Focke Wulf
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Post by Focke Wulf » 01 Nov 2003 18:01


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Christian Ankerstjerne
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Post by Christian Ankerstjerne » 01 Nov 2003 19:11

There were in fact seven. I can warmly recommend the Panzer Tracts special on the Karl Gerät, which will provide you with plenty of answers (which are all correct, unlike many other books). You can get it at http://www.panzertracts.com

Christian

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De Ruyter
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Warsaw?

Post by De Ruyter » 04 Nov 2003 19:23

Hi there!

I seem to recall at least one of these monstrosities (I mean... standing in the vicinity of that dragon during firing?) beeing used in during the second Warsaw upprising in 1944.

I believe I read about one beeing deployed there in SS-Gruppenführer Heinz Reinefarth's Nuremberg testimony. I also believe SS-Obergruppenführer Erich von dem Bach-Zelewski noted that at least one of these "morser's" had been used in the fighting. It was, according to these SS-officers very hard to use, since it was very inaccurate during city fighting and had way to much destructive power to be used safely!

I don't know what happened to it (or plural...) after the war!

regards,
Dustin

martyn powell
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Post by martyn powell » 05 Nov 2003 00:26

Hi All

There were seven Karl-Geräts,Thor,Ziu,Adam,Eva,Odin,Loki,Fenrir.
Ziu was brought into action at Warsaw in 1944.
Adam,Eva,Thor,Odin were sent to Russia in June 1941.
In June 1942 Thor,Odin, were at Sevastopol.
By the end of the war One was lost when the transport train was hit by Allied bombers,Loki was lost in Hungary,Odin was lost due to a barrel burst, and two were caught by US-troops.
Fenrir was found at Hillersleben on a testing ground.

Martyn

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KALEVALA
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Post by KALEVALA » 05 Nov 2003 18:36

thanks for all now i know more!!!



KALEVALA

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Dora
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More Info on Dora and Gustav?

Post by Dora » 29 Nov 2003 16:34

All,
I have been doing research on the two giant rail mounted guns manufactured by Krupp, the 80cm K (E). There were two assembled, the first was 'Gustav', the one used at Svastapol in June 1942, the second was 'Dora'. It is 'Dora' that most intrigues me. According to one source I have ("German Artillery of World War Two" by Hogg) she was supposed to have been sent to Stalingrad, arriving in August of the same year. Hogg mentions that she was hurridly removed when the Russian counter attacks began to threaten her. She next appears at the Rugenwalde prooving ground in 1943, which is her last known location. Next, in 1945 parts of 'Gustav' were found on a rail siding by US 3rd Army troops and parts of Dora were found in the Leipzig area. (There were parts made for a third gun, but it was never finished).
I've fished around using search engines looking for anything for Dora and Gustav (http://html.2.free.fr/canons/doramt.htm and http://palpatine.chez.tiscali.fr/Page13/Page13.htm and http://www.cix.co.uk/~nrobinson/railgun ... 0index.htm).
Does anyone know of any other sites and/or book's that I've missed that might have more info/pics on either Dora or Gustav? Thanks!
Dora
800mm

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K.Kocjancic
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Post by K.Kocjancic » 01 Dec 2003 10:11

What happend to "Ziu"?

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Bjørn from Norway
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Post by Bjørn from Norway » 01 Dec 2003 11:00

Hello!
Here is a little write up, neatly pidgin language between German & English.
Not all details might be 100% correct, but AFAIK they should be close to the truth:

KARL und BRUNO:

28 cm Kurze Bruno K (E) (Railwayartillery)

Designation: L/40, originally designed as Naval guns. Later version: S.K L/45. (”Lange Bruno”) and S.K L/42 (”Schwere Bruno”)

Units equipped with Bruno (1941):
Batterie 689, 690, 694, 695 and 696.
Each battery had two guns.



Heavy mortars ”Karl”

Designation:
54 cm mortar: ”Gerät 041” [54 cm = AP, HE, anti-concrete.]
60 cm mortar: ”Gerät 040” [60 cm = AP, HE.]

(The name ”Karl” originates from “General der Artillerie”, Karl Becker.)

Amount:
There were 7 mortars totally, one un-numbered, this was used for tests at Hillersleben, Germany.
The other 6 were numbered from I to VI. One prototype made in early 1940 [This was named “Fenrir”, {Son of Loki}. Six production vehicles made, one in November 1940 [I-“Adam”], three in May 1941 [II-“Eva”, III-“Odin”, IV-“Thor”], and two in August 1941 [V and VI are “Loki” and “Ziu”].
“Loki” was captured by 1st US Army in 1945.

Unit designations:
1. Batterie der Schweren Artillerieabteilung (mot) 833: 2 mortars named ”Adam” and ”Eva”
2. Batterie der Schweren Artillerieabteilung (mot) 833: 2 mortars named ”Thor” and ”Odin”

Other designations are not known, unless that ”Gerät V” was named ”Loki” and ”Gerät VI” was named ”Ziu”.”

Towing vechicles:
Gerät I: MB 597F
Gerät II: MB 507 CV
Gerät III: unknown
Gerät IV: MB 507 C
Gerät V: MB 507 E
Gerät VI: MB 507 C

Short history
In 1940/1941 “sw.H.Battr.(mot.) 833” formed with 2 “Gerät 040” (Karlgerät, 60cm). Circa April/May 1941 “sw.H.Art.Abt.(mot.) 833” formed from sw.H.Battr.(mot.) 833 with 2 “Gerät 040 [Karlgerät, 60cm].
On 22.June 1941 HQu being formed in WK.III.
1st Battr / schw. Art. Abt.(mot.) 833 was deployed to” IV.Armeekorps”, 17.Armee in H.Gr.Süd near Brest-Litovsk [I-“Adam” and II-“Eva”]. Adam fired 16 rounds, Eva’s first round stuck in the barrel.
2nd Battr / schw. Art. Abt.(mot.) 833 was placed as 4.Armee reserve in H.Gr.Mitte near Lemburg (III-“Odin” and IV-“Thor”). “Thor” fired four rounds, “Odin” was disabled by a broken track.
1941
Used at Lvov.
1941
sw.H.Art.Abt.(mot.) 833 re-equipped.
July 1941
sw.H.Art.Abt.(mot.) 628 recieved I to IV. This was a new unit.
August 1941
Guns V and VI (“Loki” and “Zui”) were issued to sw.H.Art.Abt.(mot.) 638.
June 1942
Thor [IV] and Odin [III] used at Sevastopol. Fired 197 rounds.
October 1942 to Summer 1943
sw.H.Art.Battr.628 used two Gerät 040 [Karlgerät, 60cm] [one is probably Zui, plus one in reserve].
May 1943 [24th]
sw.H.Art.Abt.(mot.) 628 reformed with two Battr of Gerät 040 [Karlgerät, 60cm].
June 1943
First 54cm barrel delivered, at least three were made. Thor, Zui and one unkown are known to have used this barrel.
September 1943
sw.H.Art.Abt.(mot.) 628 re-equipped.
1944
One gun on its way to bombard Paris was destroyed by its crew.
August 1944
Battery 638 in action at Warsaw [included Zui]
1944/1945
Odin [III] was disabled when its barrel burst.
|6th December 1944
Battr.(t.mot.)(60cm Karl 040) 428 equipped with two Gerät 040 [Karlgerät, 60cm].
Battr.(mot.) 638 equipped with two Gerät 041 [Karlgerät, 54cm].
1944/1945
“Loki” was lost in Hungary.
1944/1945
The Americans captured “Zui”.
1945
The prototype Fenrir {Son of Loki} was captured on testing range at Hillersleben. It had been used to test the 54cm barrel.

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K.Kocjancic
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Post by K.Kocjancic » 01 Dec 2003 11:22

Thanks for posting this!

Are there any more photos of this "mortars"?

Regards,
Kocjo

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Dan Reinbold
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Post by Dan Reinbold » 02 Dec 2003 02:15

while not a "real" picture...this is a nice image of a model that I had on my computer - sorry I don't have the page it is from.

Dan
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Dora
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Post by Dora » 29 Dec 2003 14:56

Bjorn,
Thanks for the detailed information on these giant mortars! In addition, your English is very good! Have you been to the United States? Where in Northern Norway do you come from?
Dora
800mm

Kaan Caglar
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Post by Kaan Caglar » 29 Dec 2003 19:00

Hi Kocjo!!
Hmm I have some pics but I cant identify them..
May be someone can :)
Best Regards
Kaan
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Last edited by Kaan Caglar on 01 Jan 2004 20:18, edited 1 time in total.

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Bjørn from Norway
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Post by Bjørn from Norway » 30 Dec 2003 10:35

@Dora

"Bjorn,
Thanks for the detailed information on these giant mortars! In addition, your English is very good! Have you been to the United States? Where in Northern Norway do you come from?
Dora
800mm"

I live in Bodø, north norway. Yes, I have been in the US, as I used to travel a lot when I was younger:-)

B

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