Unknown German gun emplacement - pls help to identify!

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beaviso
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Unknown German gun emplacement - pls help to identify!

Post by beaviso » 18 Feb 2004 20:34

I've found a mysterious gun site. After seeing hundreds of photos I really haven't found anything even similar. Here is a description:

Location details:
- 4 identical socles
- no other concrete remains
- Gdansk (Danzig) - German installations
- possible range of built date: 1910-1945
- in a forest (earlier a clear area) near sea shore and dunes (some 300 m from beach)
- airfield some 3 km away
- placed abt. 70 m away from each other, in a zig-zag pattern

Dimensions and details:
- single side length = 230 cm
- overall length = ~560 cm
- thickness = 90 cm
- height over ground (today) = ~1 m
- 2 pipes (possibly drainage)
- a small groove around on the upper-inner side

Cannon socle:
- diameter = 175 cm
- qty of bolts = 30 pcs.

I must say that numerous people were helpless in this case.
Please remember that these platforms could be used for guns or howitzers, for either Flak or anti-ship. There is also a possibility of some captured guns being installed there. Or maybe naval.

Note a relatively small size of concrete emplacement and a huge size of bolt circle! 30 thick bolts and a 175 cm diameter is damn lot and uncommon. I guess it might have carried some platform, and a gun was installed to that platform. But is it true?

Any suggestions are warmly welcome. Thank you!

Cheers,
M.
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Last edited by beaviso on 15 Mar 2004 13:32, edited 1 time in total.

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Erik E
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Post by Erik E » 18 Feb 2004 21:40

30 thick bolts and a 175 cm diameter is damn lot and uncommon


It surely is!

I am allmost certain that this is not for a German gun. Ususally they had lesser but bigger bolts. 20-30mm

The closest I can get are Bofors guns (Naval type). They usually have LOTS of bolts in the range 14-18mm.
Do you know if there were any Bofors guns in the area?? Maybe in turrets?

Erik

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kstdk
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Post by kstdk » 11 Mar 2004 16:18

Hello all

Any news on that one ???

Does anybody know what type of gun it may have been ???

Regards
Kurt
kstdk.

beaviso
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Post by beaviso » 13 Mar 2004 16:10

Thanks for your concern.
The bolts are definitely beyond the ø = 14-18 mm range.

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Erik E
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Post by Erik E » 14 Mar 2004 00:53

Does anybody know what type of gun it may have been


I still think it`s Bofors, but NO idea where to start unless someone knows if Poland ever had any of these guns.......

EE

beaviso
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Post by beaviso » 14 Mar 2004 01:37

Yes and no :)

Yes - Poland did use Bofors guns - 4 x 152.4 mm (6'') in 1 coastal battery named "Laskowski's" in Hel (Bay of Gdansk).
see: http://acn.waw.pl/bs/artyk/laskowski/laskowski.htm

No - Germans, after capturing Hel, revitalised all 4 guns with Swedish help (Polish soldiers had destroyed or dismantled breech locks) and included the battery into their coastal defence system. The guns remained in their original place until 1948 (2 of them are in the museums - I'll check 1 of them out soon).

There were no other Bofors guns (except 40 mm AA), and these 4 coastal 6-inchers stayed for sure in Hel, they were not moved.

brgds,
M.
Last edited by beaviso on 14 Mar 2004 01:55, edited 1 time in total.

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Erik E
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Post by Erik E » 14 Mar 2004 01:51

Yes and no :)


OK! If you are sure, then we can start looking for others.

Btw, this hobby has convinced me to never be sure until I have written proof supporting it :)

I will never use the 100% again, but I am 99,5% sure that this is not a mounting for a German gun. Do you know if the Germans used other foregin guns in batteries i Poland?? These positions could also very well be temporary you know!

I have several examples of temporary batteries which were removed ater 6-12 months when the main battery (Or new positions) were finished!

Erik E

beaviso
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Post by beaviso » 14 Mar 2004 02:15

I'd rather link these emplacements to some kind of Flak.
In the very neighbourhood, some 3 km deeper into land, was an airfield (Danzig-Langfuhr), at first military (starting from ~ 1912), then civil and again (1939-45) military.
Gdansk 1910-1918 coastal defence system included huge concrete objects, but "my mystery" emplacements are quite pathetic in their size. They may be some pre-1939 Flak (Gdansk was a demilitarised Free City then, but before the hostilities outbreak, Germans started building a few artillery sites illegaly). And Gdansk 1939-1945 had no fortified coastal artillery. So the only logical possibilities are:
- 1910's Flak
- late 1930's Flak (prob. 76 mm)
- early 1940's atypical Flak or Sperre

beaviso
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Post by beaviso » 14 Mar 2004 02:34

And what I'm pretty convinced of - this huge ring of bolts might have carried some kind of unspecified platform. And a gun might have been mounted onto that platform. That's why every effort to link the gun itself with such ring of bolts may be fruitless...

beaviso
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Post by beaviso » 15 Mar 2004 13:30

Erik E wrote:OK! If you are sure, then we can start looking for others.
(...)
These positions could also very well be temporary you know!


I've just checked the Bofors 6-in from Hel battery (in navy museum in nearby Gdynia). It was mounted onto 24 bolt circle (+3 positioning bolts every 120 deg., outside the circle).

brgds, M

beaviso
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Post by beaviso » 29 Mar 2004 00:16

Yesterday, we grabbed the showels and spent a couple of hours on cleaning the above depicted emplacement interior from a thick layer of soil and countless rubbish, mostly vodka bottles...

Here is a great picture of the inside. We dug to the very bottom. There are two pieces of cube-shaped concrete on the inner side of the bolt ring.

The bolts are 38 mm thick.
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