4,7 cm Böhler anti-tank gun

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ducatim901
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Re: 47mm Böhler anti-tank gun

Post by ducatim901 » 09 Jan 2009 11:08

Hi Assfort the middle picure you posted looksa bit like a wooden Dutch design to house the 4.7 Böhlerpak (the Dutch named it a 4.7.cm PAG).
In 1940 a bunkerdesign was made by the Dutch Army for the 4.7cm PAG, it was a 40 ton turret in a "small" concrete block that could house the 4.7cm two examples of this turret survive today (both are in museums), because the design came to late for the war, the turrets were used in the Cold war to house the guards that were to defend the entrance of a German WWII bunkercomplex that was used in the Cold war as a Airforce HQ.
Because the fact that the turrets were to late they also made wooden casemates, at least at the bridgehead Moerdijk.
When the Fallschirmjäger landed at Dordrecht (Moerdijk is near Dordrecht, about 3/4 KM away) the casemates were aimed wrongly, the 4.7cm's were mobile (in the turrets wich were to be made in the New Dutch Waterline to the 4.7cm PAG was also still a mobile gun and not used as a true immobile fortressweapon) so they could have been used against the FJ, alass i never read they did at Moerdijk but at Dordrecht the 4.7cm PAG was deployed against the FJ.
Greetings Jack.

assfort
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Re: 47mm Böhler anti-tank gun

Post by assfort » 14 Jan 2009 19:41

Hi Ducatim and thank You for the interesting informations. :D
There are no info about the 4.7 gun combat against german tanks?
This gun was a good weapon, until 1941.
Was this gun used also in the german Atlantikwall?

The schetch i've posted is the standard emplacement design visible in sout Sardinia for the AT casemates built between 1941 and 1942.
After summer 1942, the large concrete "pillbox" or the open concrete emplacement became the standard.
The open emplacement ("barbetta") was suitable for many guns used in coastal positions: 47/32, 37 and 47mm Skoda, 47/50 APX, the 65/17 gun, the "family" of italians (and captured) 75mm and for the 100/17 gun.
In The Vallo Alpino there were many different solutions for the 47/32 gun.
Also the italian Regio Esercito designed a steel cupola for the 47/32 gun, but i've not info about a real use, maybe in North Africa (??)...but i think NO.
Regio Esercito used over 200 french 47/50 guns and over 270 4.7.cm PAG, given by the Germans.
The dutch gun - better than italian 47 and original Bohler gun - was used in Tunisia, Pantelleria, and to defend Italy.
One dutch 4.7.cm PAG is preserved at the Artillery Museum in Turin.

Here a surviving Breda 47/32 gun in my city...CIAO
Image
Image

nuyt
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Re: 47mm Böhler anti-tank gun

Post by nuyt » 14 Jan 2009 19:52

Great info Assfort!
Your second pic does not show (for me)
Anyway, another good reason to visit Turin...

jopaerya
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Re: 47mm Böhler anti-tank gun

Post by jopaerya » 14 Jan 2009 20:32

Hello Assfort

I have only found 2 x 4.7 cm Pak 187 (h) in the Atlantikwall in Holland , Belgium and France .
There is one photo of a Italian Böhler in a concrete bettung in Bordeaux at the H.Q. of Betasom.

Regards Jos

nuyt
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Re: 47mm Böhler anti-tank gun

Post by nuyt » 14 Jan 2009 20:45

Daam, the City of Turin write on their webpages that the Artillery museum is closed untill march 2011!!!! :o

assfort
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Re: 47mm Böhler anti-tank gun

Post by assfort » 14 Jan 2009 20:48

Hallo. The mine second pic is -maybe- a pic of Imageshack service....
:D
Thanks Jopaerya but i can't see the image of Bordeaux area...
I have been sorry for the closing of the museum...
In Italy this model of gun has been reproduced in thousand of samples between 1935 and 1943, but today it is more difficult to find samples in good conditions, to put in a restored coastal bunker...
You can also find guns in some countries and towns, from Alps to Sicily , near the monuments for the wartime Fallen.
Best regards.

Image
Image

jopaerya
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Re: 47mm Böhler anti-tank gun

Post by jopaerya » 14 Jan 2009 21:24

Hi Assfort

Here the photo from the book Atlantikwall - Sudwall from Alain Chazette .

Regards Jos
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ducatim901
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Re: 47mm Böhler anti-tank gun

Post by ducatim901 » 15 Jan 2009 00:18

Thanks for your information Assfort, It's good to hear that more Dutch Böhlers survive.
Greetings Jack.

jopaerya
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Re: 47mm Böhler anti-tank gun

Post by jopaerya » 18 Mar 2009 12:29

Hello

Here a 4.7 cm Böhler PaK in a bunker .

Photo = Ebay.de

Regards Jos
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kriegsmarine221
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Re: 47mm Böhler anti-tank gun

Post by kriegsmarine221 » 23 Mar 2009 09:55

that looks a bit like the japanese type 1 47mm gun dont you think? look at this pic.Image

kriegsmarine221
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Re: 47mm Böhler anti-tank gun

Post by kriegsmarine221 » 23 Mar 2009 09:59

heres another one. i think this is a surviving modern day one judging by the person handling it.Image

jopaerya
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Re: 47mm Böhler anti-tank gun

Post by jopaerya » 08 May 2009 10:14

Hello

Here a 4.7 cm PaK behind a French halftrack ( Unic P107 )

Ebay.de

Regards Jos
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peeved
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Re: 47mm Böhler anti-tank gun

Post by peeved » 30 Jun 2009 20:55

Beute Dutch (?) Böhler. Goodish view of the ammo boxes.
Markus
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s.pak
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Re: 47mm Böhler anti-tank gun

Post by s.pak » 02 Jul 2009 19:41

The gun is realy a beute dutch, but are the ammo box dutch ?? i think the ammo box are the german one.

patrick

jopaerya
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Re: 47mm Böhler anti-tank gun

Post by jopaerya » 12 Sep 2009 10:13

Hello

Here a Italian 4.7 cm Pak Böhler in a concrete emplacement , looks like the one on top of this page .
According to the photocaption this would be Crete near Iraklion .

Photo = Ebay.de

Regards Jos
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