Weapons

Discussions on the fortifications, artillery, & rockets used by the Axis forces.
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Larrister
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Weapons

Post by Larrister » 12 Mar 2004 22:50

A picture from a photo album I have just bought
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Rommel8
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Post by Rommel8 » 13 Mar 2004 00:58

very nice!

I think those 2 guns are the French 25mm Anti-tank guns (SMLE1934 I believe)

Tony Williams
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Post by Tony Williams » 14 Mar 2004 11:40

Agreed - the MGs look French as well - presumably a dump of captured weapons?

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Larrister
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Post by Larrister » 15 Mar 2004 00:30

Thanks for your comments. I know nothing about weapons so it is very interesting to find out that the weapons in the photo are French.

Would the Germans have used these captured weapons?
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Tony Williams
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Post by Tony Williams » 15 Mar 2004 01:04

They certainly made some use of the 25mm guns, generally by second-line troops garrisoning France IIRC. I don't know about the small arms but it wouldn't surprise me.

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Rommel8
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Post by Rommel8 » 15 Mar 2004 01:05

Yes the Germans did use captured weapons. A lot actually :)

I think foreign SS and police units were given these weapons and I wouldnt be surprised if the Herr used the captured AT Guns

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David Lehmann
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Post by David Lehmann » 15 Mar 2004 01:14

In the thread about captured & coverted French equipment you can see these 25mm Mle1934 and Mle1937AT guns - 2.5cm Pak 112(f) and 113(f) - and 8mm Hotchkiss HMGs - sMG 257(f) - used by German troops.
I already saw a photo of a German soldier with a MAS-36 rifle - Gewehr 242(f) - ... and I have photos with FM 24/29 LMGs - leMG 116(f) -, St Etienne MGs - sMG 256(f) -, 47mm Mle1937 and Mle1939 AT guns - 4.7cm Pak 181(f) and 183(f) -etc.

Regards,

David

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Rommel8
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Post by Rommel8 » 15 Mar 2004 02:48

Panzermeyer wrote:In the thread about captured & coverted French equipment you can see these 25mm Mle1934 and Mle1937AT guns - 2.5cm Pak 112(f) and 113(f) - and 8mm Hotchkiss HMGs - sMG 257(f) - used by German troops.
I already saw a photo of a German soldier with a MAS-36 rifle - Gewehr 242(f) - ... and I have photos with FM 24/29 LMGs - leMG 116(f) -, St Etienne MGs - sMG 256(f) -, 47mm Mle1937 and Mle1939 AT guns - 4.7cm Pak 181(f) and 183(f) -etc.

Regards,

David


ooo, David could you post the picture of the German soldier with the MAS-36?

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David Lehmann
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Post by David Lehmann » 15 Mar 2004 11:01

In fact it has been posted by someone else here on a "please ID" thread about an e-bay photo, the man was probably just testing the rifle for the photo, it is not a whole platoon equiped with MAS-36s. If you don't find it again I will send it to you privately. I have stored the photo for my own pleasure and I cropped the edges, perhaps the owner of this photo will not be glad by now of I post it here ?

Regards,

David

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John W
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Post by John W » 15 Mar 2004 12:30

Panzermeyer wrote:In fact it has been posted by someone else here on a "please ID" thread about an e-bay photo, the man was probably just testing the rifle for the photo, it is not a whole platoon equiped with MAS-36s. If you don't find it again I will send it to you privately. I have stored the photo for my own pleasure and I cropped the edges, perhaps the owner of this photo will not be glad by now of I post it here ?

Regards,

David
Hi David:

In a follow up to your good post about captured French equipment in German serive, how would you rate:

1. Captured equipment (tank and anti tank) in German service?
2. Captured equipment (personnel/small arms/squad weapons/rifles etc) in german service?

I think what I am trying to ask is rate of prevelence(in what kind of troops) and extenet of use :)

Thanks David :)

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David Lehmann
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Post by David Lehmann » 15 Mar 2004 12:42

Hello,

All kind of French trucks, halfracks etc. served all the war in great numbers as you could read it in the thread about French captured/converted vehicles in the Panzer and vehicles secion of the forum. Some trucks were seen as not very good ones in the harsh muddy and cold conditions of the eastern front like the Renault AHS and AHN, other trucks like the Renault AGR and several halftracks were beloved. Without the French booty the creation new divisions for Barbarossa and the motorization of some others could not have occured, at least not in time.

French armored cars and tanks served in frontline units in 1941/1942 later mostly in police/security/training tasks. Even in 1945 you could find B2(f) and other French tanks.

French small arms were spread in many units, defenses (atlantic wall) and countries. Mostly in second line and Luftwaffe units, the first line troops had usually homogenous German small arms after 1941.

The French guns were also widely used/converted. In coastal defenses, in second line troops but also in frontline troops. The AT guns were used on the eastern front at first but also on the western front ... I have seen Pak97/38 defending southern French coasts against Anvil/Dragoon for example.

Regards,

David
Last edited by David Lehmann on 16 Mar 2004 00:16, edited 1 time in total.

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Uninen
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Post by Uninen » 15 Mar 2004 13:17

Rommel8 wrote:ooo, David could you post the picture of the German soldier with the MAS-36?


Im no David, but here it is. ;)

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Rommel8
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Post by Rommel8 » 16 Mar 2004 00:08

thanks!

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David Lehmann
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Post by David Lehmann » 22 Mar 2004 17:36

French 25mm SA34 and 25mm APX SA-L Mle37 L/72
- in German service : 2.5cm Pak 112(f) and 113(f) -

Weight : 480kg (SA34 carriage) or 300kg (SA37 carriage)
Length : 3.71m
Width : 1.05m
Barrel length : 1.80m
Rate of fire : 15-30 rpm
Traverse : 60°
Elevation : 5° to +15°
Telescopic sight : aiming sight L.711 4x
Muzzle velocity : 918m/s
Practical AT range : 800m (against tanks) - 1500m (against softskins)


Ammunitions :
Cartouche Mle1934 P - in German service : Pzgr 114(f) -
Caliber : 25x194R mm
Weight of shell : 0.320 kg (tungsten core) (900g for the whole ammunition)
V° = 918 m/s
Penetration : 40mm /30° at 400m

Other photos where you can see the 25mm French AT gun :

Image
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Post by Tony Williams » 22 Mar 2004 21:55

And you can see a picture of the 25mm ammo next to other AT gun ammo on the Ammunition Photo Gallery on my website at: http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/tankammo.html

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