PzGr specification and production

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filuhzwawy
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PzGr specification and production

Post by filuhzwawy » 17 Apr 2004 14:47

Hi,

I'm getting a little bit confused about the specific features of anti tank shells germany produced. Can anyone please explain the differences between

PzGr 39 - normal anittank ,
PzGr 40 - tungsten??? , better initial velocity?, balistic capped? ,
PzGr 40/42 - iron core???, balistic capped?
and others.

it seems that germany stopped producing tungsten shells because of a lack of resources. any other such cases?

thanks.

Tony Williams
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Post by Tony Williams » 17 Apr 2004 17:53

PzGr.40 were lightweight, tungsten-cored shot designed for firing from ordinary anti-tank guns. Their light weight gave them a much higher velocity and the tungsten core could punch through much more armour. However, they also slowed down faster because of the wind resistance of the light-alloy sleeve around the care, so had a shorter effective range. The British called such ammo APCR (AP Composite, Rigid), the USA called it HVAP (High Velocity AP).

PzGr.41 was very similar to PzGr.40 but it was designed to be fired from special Gerlich squeeze-bore guns, which had a tapered bore. The light alloy casing around the tungsten core was squeezed down against the core as it went through the barrel. This had similar performance at short range to PzGr.40 but was much better at long range. This ammo was made for three guns:
- 2.8 cm PzB 41 (28mm squeezed down to 20mm)
- 4.2 cm PaK 41 (42mm down to 29mm)
- 7.5 cm PaK 41 (75mm to 55mm)
The British had a similar concept, the Littlejohn adaptor, which allowed squeezebore ammo to be fired. They called the ammo APSV for AP Super Velocity.

The PzGr PAK Patr TS 42 was a discarding sabot shot for the 7.5 cm PaK 40. Basically the same as the other two, except that the light-alloy sleeve fell away from the tungsten core when the projectile left the muzzle. The British called this APDS.

The PzGr.40 and 41 relied on tungsten cores and their use had to stop as the tungsten was needed for machine tools. The 7.5cm TS 42 actually used a steel core (unlike the British APDS) but it doesn't seem to have been much used and is extremely rare now.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and Discussion forum

filuhzwawy
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Post by filuhzwawy » 17 Apr 2004 18:59

thnks,

and what about PzGr 40/42 and 39/42? is that an abbreviation for another type of ammo.

If the PzGr 42 was steel cored then it must have performed poorer than the tungsten cored?

Tony Williams
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Post by Tony Williams » 18 Apr 2004 04:24

I don't know about those other definitions.

Yes, the steel-cored APDS would have performed worse than tungsten-cored, but better than a conventional full-calibre AP.

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cbo
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Post by cbo » 19 Apr 2004 13:37

filuhzwawy wrote:thnks,

and what about PzGr 40/42 and 39/42? is that an abbreviation for another type of ammo.

If the PzGr 42 was steel cored then it must have performed poorer than the tungsten cored?


IIRC this is simply the designation for the PzGr 40 and PzGr 39 for use in the 7,5cm KwK 42 and its likes (i.e. StuK 42).

There was a number of different types of PzGr 40:

PzGr 40 HK (HartKern): Subcaliber tungsten round of the APCR type
PzGr 40 W (Weicheisen): Subcaliber iron round of the APCR type
PzGr 40 St (Stahlkern): Subcaliber steel round of the APCR type

The W and St versions were apparently substitutes made as tungsten became rare or unavailable for ammunition production. The W version had a lot less penetration, but also made a bigger hole and thus did more damage in the target than the others.
No really satisfactory explanation have been given for the production of these rounds, as they appear to have penetrated less and generally done less damage than the PzGr 39 APCBC/HE round. My suggestion is, that the tungsten shortage left the Germans with a production line and a lot of pre-fabricated "carriers" for the tungsten round. Instead of scrapping them, they finished the rounds with steel and iron cores. But that is speculation on my part.

Claus B

Michate
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Post by Michate » 21 Apr 2004 09:41

Tony Williams wrote:The PzGr PAK Patr TS 42 was a discarding sabot shot for the 7.5 cm PaK 40. Basically the same as the other two, except that the light-alloy sleeve fell away from the tungsten core when the projectile left the muzzle. The British called this APDS.


Somewhere on the web I ran above a remark about a Panzergranate 44, which was claimed to be a fin-stabilised discarding sabot, with phantastic penetration capabilities.

I have never heard of such a kind of ammunition developed by the Germans during WW2, so does this belong to more than just the realms of phantasy?

Best regards,
Michael

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Post by Tony Williams » 21 Apr 2004 12:12

The Germans certianly developed fin-stabilised ammo to be fired from smoothbored guns, and even put it into limited service in the 30.5 cm K5 Glatt railway guns. I haven't heard of APFSDS for anti-tank use, but it wouldn't surprise me if they were playing with that.

Tony Williams

filuhzwawy
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Post by filuhzwawy » 23 Apr 2004 09:38

thanks for the replies. This cleares up a lot for me. :)

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