.88 vs UK .25 pdr

[PF]

In the "History of the Second World War " Series the point is made that while
the .88 German Artillery piece could be used as anti-aircraft; anti-tank; and
anti-infantry-the British equivelent the .25 pounder artillery piece was not
used in as many ways as the .88 was.
Any comment on why the .25 was not used as the .88 was?

[LegalAssassin]

The 25 pounder was developed from the 18 pounder howitzer used in the trench warfare of WW1. When WW2 demanded more firepower, the 18 pr barrels were drilled up to fit a 25 pr round. Along with WW2 came also heavier armour, artillery often found themselves attacked by german tanks. For this, an armour-piercing round was developed.

As the weight of the shell increased, the amount of explosives increased. With the weakened barrels from the 25 pr conversion, this resulted in a large amount of force which gave the gun a reputation of "the crew killer".

Most of the converted guns were destroyed or captured in France 1940, and the new production model featured a barrel made for a 25 pr round. The large amount of explosives still caused a problem (in aiming, if I remember correctly), and this was the reason for the recognizable muzzle brake being added.

The 25 pr gun was initially a howitzer later used for indirect fire. When the need came, it developed into an AT gun. The german Flak 36 was an AA gun which was then used as a direct fire and AT gun, on occasions even for indirect fire.

[Tony Williams]

Or. to put it more simply, the 25 pdr (which incidentally was also of 88mm calibre) was a low/medium-velocity field gun, the German 88mm Flak was a high-velocity AA gun, absolutely huge by comparison. Its high velocity happened to make it effective in the long-range AT role, for which it is most famous.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and Discussion forum

[The Argus]

The 18/25pr were not drilled up 18's nore was the 18 the basis of the 25.

The only link between them was that 87.5mm was the largest barrel you could squeeze onto the 18pr carriage. The 18/25 was just a conversion forced on the British Army by a tight fisted treasury. But it used a brand new auto-frettage barrel where the 18pr was wire wound.

The straight out 25 was a brand 'new' design that owed very little to the 18 bar the experience of WWI.

I can't recall the 18/25 as having a bad reputation for prematures but the majority were indeed lost in France. Although IIRC there were a good number in Egypt early on.

Likewise the 25lb had an exclent reputation, the muzzle break had nothing to do with bore wear or premature detonations (it could hardly help those), but was to allow supercharges to be used mainly when firing AP shot against tanks.

Accuracy did suffer when the guns were worn but that happens to all artillery or small arms too for that matter.

If the 88 and the 25 did have one thing in common it was that they were both designed for different things (AA and field artillery) but ended up being very useful anti-tank guns.

shane

[Tony Williams]

The 25 pdr actually suffered very little from barrel wear and remained extraordinarily accurate, as well as extremely fast firing.

I read of one test in WW2 when a gun which had fired over 10,000 rounds was checked for bore wear - it was negligible. And the guns were so fast-firing that the Germany artillerymen were convinced that the British had developed an automatic loader.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and Discussion forum

[Von Schadewald]

In "A Bridge Too Far" there is a scene of 25pdrs firing a marching barrage to clear the way for XXX Corps, with plenty of British brass casings zinging and barking Master Gunnery Sargeants with their spanking silver tipped batons. The question is: are the resulting cinematic explosions on open ground & among the Germans overdone, or is that more or less what a 25lb HE round would look like?