Hello all
Right now, at the memberforum "Atlantikwall" there is a ongoing discussion about the term "Atlantikwall"
What is within the area of the Atlantikwall ?? From where to where does the "Wall" go ??
Is the inland bunkersites which is about 10 - 15 - 20 km away connected to the Atlantikwall or individual strongpoints related to other units ??
As said until now:
The Atlantikwall is within the area of OB West ( AOK 15 - AOK 7 )
Norway is - Oberkdo. der 20. (Geb.) Armee / Oberkdo. des Wehrm. Befh. Norwegen ( related directly to OKW )
Denmark is - WbD - Wehrm. Befh. Dänemark ( related directly to OKW )
Germany is - WbDB - Wehrm. Befh. Deutsche Bucht ( related directly to OKW )
Holland is - WbN - Wehrm. Befh. Niederlände ( related directly to OKW )
Belgium is - OB West - AOK 15
France is - OB West - AOK 15 / AOK 7
This includes Heer and Marine - Luftwaffe positions is only related to AW in specific areas / functions within AOK 15 and AOK 7.
The V1 - V2 - V3 is not Atlanticwall / i.e. Margival is not Atlanticwall etc. etc. there is many more differenties mentioned !!!
BUT the big question her is - where is the "borderlines" between the Coastaldefences ( Atlanticwall ) and inland - 1. Stellung - 2. Stellung. And does the Atlanticwall go from Northern Norway ( Petsamo area ) to Biarritz ???
Or is the term Atlantikwall just a propagande name for the Coastaldefence of the occupied countries, because they are not all along the Atlantic Ocean coastline, cause if so it really is only France who comes under the term.
What is your opinions on that, please ???
Regards
Kurt
kstdk.
Atlantikwall - Area of responsibility ??
Hm....
You rise quite some difficult questions from time to time Kurt....
In the "Führerbefehl" wich started the project we know as the Atlantikwall, Hitler describes a "defenceline running from the Norwegian sea, via the North sea, and down to the Atlantic ocean, similar to the allready exsisting Westwall"......
My impression is that it was given a common name, as it was defined as a continous defenceline.
As for the inland sites, I would say all bunkers relating to the defence of the coastline could be called parts of the Atlantikwall. But all in all, I think it will be very difficult to draw any lines and tell which bunkers belongs where.......
V-sites are quite different as they are offensive weapons. The problems to define starts when you look at strongpoints located around inland cities...
EE
You rise quite some difficult questions from time to time Kurt....
In the "Führerbefehl" wich started the project we know as the Atlantikwall, Hitler describes a "defenceline running from the Norwegian sea, via the North sea, and down to the Atlantic ocean, similar to the allready exsisting Westwall"......
My impression is that it was given a common name, as it was defined as a continous defenceline.
As for the inland sites, I would say all bunkers relating to the defence of the coastline could be called parts of the Atlantikwall. But all in all, I think it will be very difficult to draw any lines and tell which bunkers belongs where.......
V-sites are quite different as they are offensive weapons. The problems to define starts when you look at strongpoints located around inland cities...
EE
Hello
Dont get me wrong when i write this, but i find such a discussion kind of "funny"
Its a name or term being used for many years. Its easily recognized and if said most people know what you refer to.
If going straight at the name, it should only be the areas facing the atlantic, exluding all others. But then we might get som weird ones in a couple of years, museums in Denmark are sued by french museums....they are not to be allowed to use the word "Atlantikwall" in their publications... Or you might be corrected when you mention it talking to bunker freaks from the "correct" areas.
Personally i dont care what they call it, "Atlantikwall", or "Festüng Europa".
If Antwerpen or the defences around had been recognized as a part of the atlantik wall, shouldnt the V1´s launced against that city be recognized as a part of the defence as well ?
Im sure there are others in here with a wast knowledge about it. Im not to involved in this matters, using the trips around mostly for "recreation trips",but im very interested to read coments from others in this forum.
regards
stril
Dont get me wrong when i write this, but i find such a discussion kind of "funny"
Its a name or term being used for many years. Its easily recognized and if said most people know what you refer to.
If going straight at the name, it should only be the areas facing the atlantic, exluding all others. But then we might get som weird ones in a couple of years, museums in Denmark are sued by french museums....they are not to be allowed to use the word "Atlantikwall" in their publications...
Or you might be corrected when you mention it talking to bunker freaks from the "correct" areas.Personally i dont care what they call it, "Atlantikwall", or "Festüng Europa".
I dont know about this either, but from my point of view, ANY force deployed against a invading force in the "atlantikwall" should be included. The atlanticwall wasnt just static defences, was it ?The V1 - V2 - V3 is not Atlanticwall / i.e. Margival is not Atlanticwall etc. etc. there is many more differenties mentioned !!!
BUT the big question her is - where is the "borderlines" between the Coastaldefences ( Atlanticwall ) and inland - 1. Stellung - 2. Stellung.
If Antwerpen or the defences around had been recognized as a part of the atlantik wall, shouldnt the V1´s launced against that city be recognized as a part of the defence as well ?
Im sure there are others in here with a wast knowledge about it. Im not to involved in this matters, using the trips around mostly for "recreation trips",but im very interested to read coments from others in this forum.
regards
stril
Hello Erik and Stril
We agree so far, as it also is my attitude to this - but the discussion is there, and got me thinking and wondering a bit !!
I also "dont care much" if it is the one or the other, but in my opinion some tend to "forget" the smaller sites a bit, and out of interest in the command lines and so forth, i brought the issue up for discussion here.
I also would like some other comments on this topic, but not for the term or name Atlantikwall, but for clarification on the chain of command and how to connect the different parts of the AW. In my world the AW is a defenceline from Northern Norway to Biarritz and it includes the Heer, Marine and Luftwaffe in the coastaldefence, the "hindernisse", minefields, strongpoints, Wn, Festungen and the 1. Stellung, 2. Stellung, and everything connected to the defence against an invader from the sea !!
As you mention Erik, Hitler had defined the AW, but even He had different definitions on different stages of the war, did he not ???
I dont know how many of you is a member of, and looking in to "Atlantikwall Group" on Yahoo Groups? There is still an ongoing talk on this topic there !!!
Regards
Kurt
kstdk.
We agree so far, as it also is my attitude to this - but the discussion is there, and got me thinking and wondering a bit !!
I also "dont care much" if it is the one or the other, but in my opinion some tend to "forget" the smaller sites a bit, and out of interest in the command lines and so forth, i brought the issue up for discussion here.
I also would like some other comments on this topic, but not for the term or name Atlantikwall, but for clarification on the chain of command and how to connect the different parts of the AW. In my world the AW is a defenceline from Northern Norway to Biarritz and it includes the Heer, Marine and Luftwaffe in the coastaldefence, the "hindernisse", minefields, strongpoints, Wn, Festungen and the 1. Stellung, 2. Stellung, and everything connected to the defence against an invader from the sea !!
As you mention Erik, Hitler had defined the AW, but even He had different definitions on different stages of the war, did he not ???
I dont know how many of you is a member of, and looking in to "Atlantikwall Group" on Yahoo Groups? There is still an ongoing talk on this topic there !!!
Regards
Kurt
kstdk.
Hello JPK
Off course, my mistake - forgot that, sorry !!
AOK 15:
89 AK - KVA A1 - KVA A2 - KVA3
82 AK - KVA B - KVA C KVA D1
67 AK - KVA D2 - KVA D3
81 AK - KVA E2 - KVA F - KVA G
AOK 7:
84 AK - KVA H1 - KVA H2 - KVA J1 - KVA J2
74 AK - KVA A1 - KVA A2
25 AK - KVA B - KVA C1 - KVA C2
AOK 1:
80 AK - KVA D - KVA E1
86 AK - KVA E2 - KVA F
But - what do you think of this "discussion" ??
Regards
Kurt
kstdk
Off course, my mistake - forgot that, sorry !!
AOK 15:
89 AK - KVA A1 - KVA A2 - KVA3
82 AK - KVA B - KVA C KVA D1
67 AK - KVA D2 - KVA D3
81 AK - KVA E2 - KVA F - KVA G
AOK 7:
84 AK - KVA H1 - KVA H2 - KVA J1 - KVA J2
74 AK - KVA A1 - KVA A2
25 AK - KVA B - KVA C1 - KVA C2
AOK 1:
80 AK - KVA D - KVA E1
86 AK - KVA E2 - KVA F
JPK wrote:Bonjour kstdk
you write:
The Atlantikwall is within the area of OB West ( AOK 15 - AOK 7 )
Dont you forget AOK 1 ?
France is - OB West - AOK 15 / AOK 7 /AOK 1
Regards
JPK
But - what do you think of this "discussion" ??
Regards
Kurt
kstdk
Hello
I add a sample from a drawing, its from a KTB, meldeweg im Küstenschutz"
From left, Luftwaffe, Heer, Kriegsmarine, Feldgendarmerie(?)
I should think that most positions up to the level shown here could be regarded as a part of the atlanticwall if a enemy attacked.
I agree that its easy to forget the smaller sites, a small kabelbunker is also important when looking at the overall picture, not just the big and "fancy" sites. If following the discussion and being puristic(?), im not sure if the area of Normandy can be called a part of the Atlantikwall, as its a part of the Marbef. Kanalküste.
(might have changed, ill have a list from 1942 in front of me)
regards
I add a sample from a drawing, its from a KTB, meldeweg im Küstenschutz"
From left, Luftwaffe, Heer, Kriegsmarine, Feldgendarmerie(?)
I should think that most positions up to the level shown here could be regarded as a part of the atlanticwall if a enemy attacked.
I agree that its easy to forget the smaller sites, a small kabelbunker is also important when looking at the overall picture, not just the big and "fancy" sites. If following the discussion and being puristic(?), im not sure if the area of Normandy can be called a part of the Atlantikwall, as its a part of the Marbef. Kanalküste.
(might have changed, ill have a list from 1942 in front of me)
regards
Directive Nr 40
Bonjour,
Here is the beginning.of Directive Nr 40, If you want, I shall post all.
Regards
JPK
Here is the beginning.of Directive Nr 40, If you want, I shall post all.
Regards
JPK
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