Regelbau 618

Discussions on the fortifications, artillery, & rockets used by the Axis forces.
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c_hoff82
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Regelbau 618

#1

Post by c_hoff82 » 11 May 2005, 20:21

Hello

One thing have been in my minds for a long time now:

The "Eingangsverteidigung"is there to prevent enemies from entering the bunker...
See attached plan:
If you enter through eingang1, you will be shot by the guard behind the Scharte. But if you enter through eingang2 there will be no guard or Scharte!? How come there are no defence there?

The plan is downloaded from this page: http://www.silkeborgbunkermuseum.dk/

Best regards
C. hoff
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R618 Forum.JPG
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jopaerya
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#2

Post by jopaerya » 11 May 2005, 20:45

Hello C-Hoff

Long time no hear , for the 618
on the original drawing you can see
that is only one entrance , the other
one runs dead.
I think the one in Denmark is a S.K.

Regards Jos
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618.JPG
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c_hoff82
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R618

#3

Post by c_hoff82 » 11 May 2005, 21:26

Hello jopaerya

Yes, it`s been a long time. My little son is taking most of my spare time :wink:
It looks like you are right about it being a SK. I just couldnt understand why they would build a bunker that way..

Thanks for updating me :)

Regards
C. hoff

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Dan Mouritzsen
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It is a standard R618!

#4

Post by Dan Mouritzsen » 12 May 2005, 00:19

Hi

The R618 we have here in Silkeborg is not a SK it is a standard R618. There is a bit of a variation on the interiors of most of the R618 I have seen but I have never seen one constructed like the one on your drawing Jos? Were does that drawing come from?

You can not just run into the bunker through the right entrance. The door was locked from the inside and it was possible both to shoot and drop grenades through a small opening in it. It would have been quite unhealthy to try to come in there as there is nowhere you can hide in the rooms outside the door!
In the first room there were telephone equipment primarily telephone cables to repair broken telephone lines with. They were kept there so the signal personnel could get to it without entering the bunker first. In the second room there was a large battery charger.

8)

Regards

Dan Mouritzsen

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kstdk
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#5

Post by kstdk » 12 May 2005, 08:50

Hello

As Dan is stating, also the drawings that i have and have seen is all alike !!

The drawing in Rudi Rolf, and other drawings like the one from Silkeborg of R618 - and - Jos, I have never seen this drawing like yours either ??

Is it from a official German document ( i see a kind of likeness to BAMA numbering on it, right ?? )

Would like to clearify this difference, though - because this is beginning to look interesting !!

Rudi Rolf is mentioning: R618 - DK=1 / NL=4 / AOK15 = 7 / AOK 7 = 5 / AOK 1 = 2 ( Drawing from "Rudi Rolf´s Bible").

Anyone can tell what those others looks like ???

Regards
Kurt
kstdk.

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c_hoff82
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R618

#6

Post by c_hoff82 » 12 May 2005, 14:52

Well, the plans differs quite a bit.
The Rudi Rolf numbers, do they mean:

Denmark 1 R618
Holland 4 R618
and so on...?

Dan Mouritzsen:

Do you have a picture of the "Heizung" room?
Did it have central heating?

C. Hoff

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kstdk
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Re: R618

#7

Post by kstdk » 12 May 2005, 15:18

Hallo all

The question here:
c_hoff82 wrote:The Rudi Rolf numbers, do they mean:
Denmark 1 R618 - Holland 4 R618 - and so on...?C. Hoff
Yes - it means excactly that !!

Here is another drawing ( Courtesey of Patrick Fleuridas ).

Regards
Kurt
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#8

Post by jopaerya » 12 May 2005, 16:49

Hi Friends

Dan , I made a quick reply to C-Hoff and I was wrong your
bunker in Silkeborg is a 618 not a S.K.
My drawing is from the Bundesarchiv and is from early 1943
and was equipt with 1 entrance and the wall closed .
I think that the Festungspionier changed the drawing in a
version just like Rudi Rolf and Silkeborg.
I think that the old version (my drawing) is build in France and
in the Channel Islands and the new version ( Silkeborg) was build
in Holland ,Denmark and Norway .
I have seen this before with the 611 and 650 there are 2 versions
a old and a new one.

Sorry and Regards Jos

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Erik E
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#9

Post by Erik E » 13 May 2005, 00:19

Hallo!

Here is the only R618 I have seen in Norway.....
Located outside Arendal.....
As for the heating system, this bunker has a strange detail I haven`t seen anywhere else!
2 x WT80 integrated in a concrete tank!!

According to various buildinglists and maps, there should be atleast 2 more in Norway.
(Are you up to something CHoff??)
Attachments
618-1.JPG
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618Tromøy.JPG
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c_hoff82
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R618

#10

Post by c_hoff82 » 13 May 2005, 21:10

Hmmm, that`s one thing I never have seen before. 8O
I`m interessted in seeing how the larger bunkers had their heating systems.
I have not yet visited a R618, Arendal is to far south from Trondheim to visit outside of hollydays.

Attached is a photo of the plate with the technical data on a central heating system in a bunker here in my town.
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SK heat1.JPG
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P. Heijkoop
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#11

Post by P. Heijkoop » 13 May 2005, 23:52

Hi All,

I typed an e-mail shortly before, but due to a strange occurence i couldn't sent it...
and lost the mail... :o No i have to type it again... :(

The plan Jos provided is indeed a concept-design, which to my knowledge was never built..
It's actually a ordinary 617 enlarged with an antennaroom... So its more a emergency-design then a well thought design for the specific function of comm.bunker for higher staffs, opposed to a telephone switchpoint...

The new design is the design which was used for the Atlantikwall. The only exception is the Channel Island where they used a Sk of two storeys which somewhat resembles the 617.

The 618's built differ slightly in interior design..., these adaptions are mainly in the brock or wooden walls... and mostly related to the specific usage of the bunker.. This differed from Meldekopf or Divisional comm.centres where telephone exchanges, teletypes and radios were used up to the 618s that were built inside AOK headquarters which only housed the telephone exchange, Fern u. Geheimschreiber..

I made a list of all the 618's. If anyone is interested I will post it.

Erik. Do you have a clue where the other Norwegian 618s are located? Inside staff quarters or inside one of the Festungen?

Peter

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Erik E
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#12

Post by Erik E » 14 May 2005, 00:11

Erik. Do you have a clue where the other Norwegian 618s are located? Inside staff quarters or inside one of the Festungen?
Sorry.... A little mistake there!
One of them should be a R617......

The second R618 should be in "Festung Gossen", an airfield outside Molde.
The R617 in molde itself!
I have been both places, but as usual, we got this info AFTER we came back :roll:
So.... Have to go there again some day!!
Also quite interesting that this area and northwards to Trondheim, seems to have had several R117a bunkers as headquarters for the HKAR artillerie gruppen. Seen 2 so far, and according to these new lists, there should be atleast 3 more!

Erik E

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kstdk
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#13

Post by kstdk » 14 May 2005, 10:24

Hello all

From this discussion there seems to be at least two different types ( or Variante ) of the R618 ??

They differs in both size, number of rooms and interior ( see attached drawing - courtesey of Patrick Fleuridas. )

Any comments on that !!!

Have a nice weekend.

Regards
Kurt
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#14

Post by P. Heijkoop » 14 May 2005, 11:37

Hi All,

There are indeed two designs. The first one, an adapted 617 which should be seen as a temporarily or ad-hoc design which was never built. The ad-hoc character is visible in the usage and extension of the 617 with an antennaroom and chancing the Bereitschaftsraum into a Funkraum.. However, this design is not really up to the specific function of a Nachrichtenstand fuer hoehere Staebe.. The 617 is mainlu just a passive telephone-switching and maintenance-point. It's however the first communications bunker where we also see the incorporation of an active telephone switchboard... in comparison to the 142 and 616..

In the latter and final design of the 618 you see they changed the design completely and fine-tuned it for the tasks of a communicationsbunker in staffquarters... They integrated the functions of Schluesselraum and Schaltbefehlsstelle in the 618 in seperate rooms. This was lacking in the first design but needed due to the secrecy of the encoding of radio messages and the admininistration and command of the telephonecable net (Schaltbefehlsstelle)..

In the same heft from which Jos published the drawing of the concept 618 there are also plans of early design 623, 624, 624 and 630... Also, as far as we know these design were never put to use, but later fine-tuned in the bunkers we all know..

So, indeed two different 618 designs of which only the latter fine-tuned one was put to use..
The confusion is now the fact that some people or organisation (such as Dawa) present both designs and suggest both were built.. According to me this is not the case...
Okay, there is always a small chance that one of the earliest built 618s is indeed the early design, but I still have to see it...

Erik: any clue if the bunkers in Gossen are still present and/or located on military terrain?
most likely the were both used as Meldekopf..


Peter

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#15

Post by P. Heijkoop » 14 May 2005, 11:42

Hi all,

By the way.. here a list of know 618s (many now demolished) :(

Norway: Gossen, Arendal
Denmark: Silkeborg
Holland (WBN): Schagen, Amstelveen, Hoek van Holland, Dordrecht
Holland (AOK 15): Middelburg, Oostburg
Belgium (AOK 15): Antwerp, Diksmuide
France (AOK 15): Tourcoing, Le Havre
France (AOK 7): Caen, Valognes, Quimperle, La Baule, St.Nazaire
France (AOK 1): Royan, Bordeaux

Peter

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