Question - What´s this "concrete" ?

Discussions on the fortifications, artillery, & rockets used by the Axis forces.
michelb
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Post by michelb » 08 Jan 2007 12:58

jopaerya wrote:It is a special foto you found, it is "Koch"-bunker
named after Gauleiter E. Koch (East Prussia)on the picture
It could be used as kampfstand , unterschlupt and
beobachterstand.etc etc.
Another thesis is, they named it after "Kochtopf" (cooking stove) becuase it looks very similar to it.

Both sound feasable. Although i don't understand why a Bunkertype is named after a Gauleiter. Never understood why Koch was so concerned with the defense of East Prussia. Het was more concerned with his power, wealth and art-robbery.

Regards,
Michel

jopaerya
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Re: Question - What´s this "concrete" ?

Post by jopaerya » 07 Mar 2009 09:19

Hello

These 2 pages contain some information on the Kochbunker .

Regards Jos
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jopaerya
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Re: Question - What´s this "concrete" ?

Post by jopaerya » 29 May 2009 17:08

Hello

Two Koch bunkers one standing as Tobrukstand and the other lying as cover for personel or ammo .

Photo = Polish bunker Forum

Regards Jos
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Projekt-Westwall
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Re: Question - What´s this "concrete" ?

Post by Projekt-Westwall » 04 Jun 2009 13:45

Hi,

Here a Pic from a Kochstand as Observation (B-Stand) near a Doppel MG- Schartenstand B1-5.

Greets

Markus
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jopaerya
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Re: Question - What´s this "concrete" ?

Post by jopaerya » 10 Jun 2009 09:33

Hello Markus

Beautiful to see the early Westwall bunker alongside the latest Westwall bunker ,
are there many Kochstanden left in the Westwall by your knowledge ??

Regards Jos

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Projekt-Westwall
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Re: Question - What´s this "concrete" ?

Post by Projekt-Westwall » 11 Jun 2009 13:55

Hi Jos,

Thanx,

there where ca. 10 Kochstände in the Area of this B1-5. It is a front slop position (is it the right word for Vorderhang?)

This Position is a part of the "Hilgenbachstellung" in the Saarland. You can find here "Limes-Regelbauten" and early "Pionierbauten" in B1. In 1944 the positions were reinforced with Kochständen.
I have requested that the building may be restored by me. I hope it works.

Greets Markus

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Re: Question - What´s this "concrete" ?

Post by jopaerya » 10 Sep 2009 19:26

Hello , this is a Kochbunker with a Ringdeckel for a binocular periscope ( Scherenfernrohr )

Regards Jos
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Re: Question - What´s this "concrete" ?

Post by Projekt-Westwall » 10 Sep 2009 20:37

Hi Jos,

nice drawing, thx for sharing it!

Greet Markus
ON NE PASSE PAS!

KaiserChief
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Re: Question - What´s this "concrete" ?

Post by KaiserChief » 11 Sep 2009 05:01

Really interesting drawing. I expect similar device for binocular was used in tobruks. Is it true or false?

V.

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Re: Question - What´s this "concrete" ?

Post by jopaerya » 11 Sep 2009 21:23

Hi V

That is correct the "Gerät Nr. 967 S 7" was also used in the ringstand .

Regards Jos

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Re: Question - What´s this "concrete" ?

Post by Projekt-Westwall » 09 Oct 2011 11:57

Here a picture from our "Kochstand" at WH 316 in the Halberg-Stellung Saarbrücken.

We had built in a "Ringlafette" from the postwar "Bundeswehr".
This mounting is was used in many older trucks.

It is not original wartime- but looks very nice...

BRegards
Markus
DSCN9495.jpg
DSCN9496.jpg
DSCN9497.jpg
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jopaerya
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Re: Question - What´s this "concrete" ?

Post by jopaerya » 09 Oct 2011 12:51

Thanks for sharing these nice picture's and good to have you back 8-)

Regards Jos

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Re: Question - What´s this "concrete" ?

Post by MLW » 09 Oct 2011 14:27

Based on Markus' photographs, I do not see how the Koch bunker could be effective. First, the gunner and machine gun are exposed - there is a real risk of a head or upper body injury. Second, there is no room to maneuver. The gunner must have felt trapped in a small space. Third, when taking fire, shards of concrete would have been a danger. What soldier would prefer the "concrete coffin" of a Koch bunker to a simple earthen field work? Thoughts?

Regards, Marc

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Harpoon
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Re: Question - What´s this "concrete" ?

Post by Harpoon » 09 Oct 2011 16:11

MLW wrote:Based on Markus' photographs, I do not see how the Koch bunker could be effective. First, the gunner and machine gun are exposed - there is a real risk of a head or upper body injury. Second, there is no room to maneuver. The gunner must have felt trapped in a small space. Third, when taking fire, shards of concrete would have been a danger. What soldier would prefer the "concrete coffin" of a Koch bunker to a simple earthen field work? Thoughts?

Regards, Marc
As an old ”grunt” I would prefer concrete tobruk or Koch position any day over a dugout hole, but with additional sandbags or earth filled up to the ring. A fortified position also gives additional luxury as shelters and trenches leading up to the position. I would expect that bipod would have been favorable over a pivot, but the anti aircraft use will suffer. A concrete position gives overall better protection against all weapons and also an important factor the elements.

Harpoon

MLW
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Re: Question - What´s this "concrete" ?

Post by MLW » 09 Oct 2011 18:05

Hi Harpoon - it still looks like a death trap to me. Too easy to see and identify (i.e., limited concealment), no overhead cover, and too many hard surfaces to ricochet bullets. An earth or timber bunker that will blend in better with the surroundings and absorb impacts has to be preferable (in my opinion).

Regards, Marc

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