bunker for Mammut radar

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jopaerya
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bunker for Mammut radar

Post by jopaerya » 18 May 2005 18:34

Hi All

Found this bunker in a French book , is this
type build in France or elswere ?
The type of radar looks like a Luftwaffe Mammut,
I know the L 485 but this type looks like a
Regelbaut who know more ?

Regards Jos

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AvB
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Post by AvB » 18 May 2005 19:38

Hi Jos,

This is the early type L 485. Built at Cap Fréhel and Predéfin. Maybe at more places, don't know exactly.

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SES
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Post by SES » 18 May 2005 21:10

Hi,
It is a V 143 used by the Kriegsmarine for mounting the Mammut, cf Rudi Rolf "Atlantic Wall Typology".
bregds
SES

jopaerya
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Post by jopaerya » 18 May 2005 21:21

Hi Ses

I dont think that it is V 143 , because the V 143 has
2 eingangsverteidigungen and this one eingangs-
verteidigung.
Also the Mammutradar is typical Luftwaffe not
Kriegsmarine.

Regards Jos

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SES
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Post by SES » 18 May 2005 21:40

Hi Jos,
Agree that it is not a standard V 143, however i a.w. F. Trenkle the Mammut was actually developed for the Kriegsmarine and used under the designations FuMO 51, 52 and 53 or Mammut-Gustav, Mammut-Cäsar and Mammut-Cäcillie.
The Mammut was I agree mostly used by the Luftwaffe, but the Mammut at Hanstholm was also used for detection and tracking of surface vessels. There was a standing agreement between the Kriegsmarine and the Luftwaffe on the arrangement and a direct telephone line between the Mammut and the ARKO.
bregds
SES

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Post by jopaerya » 19 May 2005 09:17

Hi Ses

Yes the Mammutradar was a Kriegsmarine development
but what I meant that the four pilar Mammut is typical
Luftwaffe , the fotos that I have seen from the V 143 the
Mammut has three pillars .
The L ??? is build in Luftwaffe radar post like Pferd ( Predefin)
Cap Frehel (Forsch) so it must be a Luftwaffe Regelbaut.

Regards Jos

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SES
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Post by SES » 19 May 2005 10:33

Hi Jos,
Agree that a 3 pillar Mammut is WM.
The fact that a specific bunker is used in a site from a specific service does, however, not always mean that it was a Regelbau of that service. The 622 was used extensively by all 3 services, but I guess it was a Heer Regelbau. The L 409A is used in Denmark in HKBs, but it is a WL Regelbau. In Silkeborg, which was the GefStd of WehrM.Bef.Däne, a V 196, which was a WM Rgelbau, was used as communications center.
bregds
SES

jopaerya
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Post by jopaerya » 19 May 2005 10:49

Hi Ses

You are right about the use of Regelbauten
among the different services , they could be
using a Marine-type in a Luftwaffestutzpunkt.
For example in Holland we got in Stutzpunktgruppe
Scheveningen Waffen SS using the Fl 243 and
Fl 311 for there Flakbatterie there.
What a pity that the Waffen SS didn't made there
there own bunkerregelbauten like the SS 154.

Regards Jos

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Post by SES » 19 May 2005 10:52

:lol:

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Post by M.S.Jensen » 19 May 2005 17:40

Hey SES

Are you so sure about it being a V 143SK or a derivation of the V 143. It looks, like Jos and AvB said, an early version or a derivation of the L 485.

Look at the right entrance and allso the "eingang für Geräte". Behind those there is a large room where the powergenerator would be. The shape of this room is (in my opinion) very characteristic for medium large WL bunkers such as the L480, L485, L483 and so on..

Morten

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Post by SES » 19 May 2005 21:30

Hi Morten,
Yes you could retain rooms 80, 21, 22 and 43; turn rooms 1, 100 and 1 90 dg place those on top and you would have something similar, but I'd rather put my bet on an early V 143.
bregds
SES

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Post by M.S.Jensen » 19 May 2005 23:12

Hey

I would still say that there is too much LW about the design. The Marine has a hole other koncept in design. It is a lot of small things that write LW on it..

Maybe the bunker in the drawing at the top was actualy designed by LW and then the Marine based the V 143 on it :wink:

Morten

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Post by jopaerya » 21 May 2005 15:09

Hi SES and Morten

I recieved from a friend a picture of the Mammut-
bunker of Labenne-Ocean (Biarritz), the bunkerplan is
the same as on the plan on the top of this topic.
I also have a German buildingprogram of the 1 Armee
and Ba 16 is radarstation "Buntspecht"" and the same
as on the foto so it must be a L 485.
My question is this a early type or a later type , my theory
is that it was a later version because the Mammutradar
in the Channelarea and Holland and Denmark were build
earlyer than the Mammutradar in south of St Malo.
The only exeption is the Radarpost "Pferd" (Predefin)
but this Mammut was not placed on the coastline.
I don't know the drawing of the L 485 build in Norway
maybe Erik E. can help.
As last the drawing of the "later" L 485 is more a Luftwaffe
model ( Morten ) but has alikenes on the V 143 ( SES ).

Pleace shot on it , it is only a theory .

Regards Jos

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Post by P. Heijkoop » 22 May 2005 00:10

Hi

The same L485 was also built in the radar position
Vogel south of Royan. On the Baufortschrittsmeldung
it also mentioned as a L.485. Also, a third one was built
in the Westeck of Cherbourg.

I always thought it was standard knowledge
that there are two versions of the L485.
:wink:

Peter

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Erik E
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Post by Erik E » 22 May 2005 00:49

The L 485 at Tarva ("Tanne"), western Norway, fits with the one in "Atlanticwall Typologie" by RR.
The second known Mammut in Norway was placed on a Vf SK bunker!
This bunker was covered with earth several years ago, so I have only seen some photos.
No drawings available.....

EE

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