#2
Post
by David Lehmann » 13 Jun 2005, 12:55
Hello,
The fact that the gun was designed in 1897 doesn't mean that the guns used in 1940 were those produced in WW1. This gun was the standard light field gun of the French army in 1940. It had also been modernized by adding different types of pneumatics for the motorized units and new shells were also available. The gun by itself was not obsolete and had still a high rate of fire. It was also used very efficiently by the Free French in Bir Hakeim for example. Several of these guns were still in use in Indochina (1945-1954) and even several French posts on Algeria and Morocco used it later.
The 120mm De Bange Mle1877 was on its side really obsolete but was still used by Romanian and German troops in 1944 for example.
The same 75mm Mle1897 barrel was used for field guns, AT guns and AA guns. In 1928 a new Schneider 75mm barrel (firing 75x518R shells instead of 75x350R shells) was used for AA guns and a brand new AT gun but this last was not produced before the armistice.
If you use in 1960 a Colt 1911A1 designed at the beginnig of the century that does not mean that the pistol is bad for example.
Canon de 75mm (L/36.3) Mle1897 (FIELD GUN)
Type : field gun
Crew : 1 NCO + 6 men
Caliber : 75x350R mm
Length : 4.45m
Barrel length : 2721 mm (2229 mm rifling)
Width : 1.51m
Weight in action : 1140 kg
Weight in travel : 1970 kg
Elevation : -11° to +18°
Traverse : 6°
Ready to fire in 5 minutes
Rate of fire : up to 28 rpm (10-12 rpm in sustained fire)
HE Shell
Maximum range : 11100 m
Projectile weight : 5.550 to 6.500 kg depending from different HE shells
V° : 575 m/s
This is the famous "75". This French gun developed for WW1 was the first field gun equipped with modern recoil system and first field gun fitting to quick-fire concept. Used by 18 countries including the US (until 1941), UK (1939-40 in small numbers), Poland (75mm armata polowa wz. 97), Portugal, Ireland, Greece, Romania, Finland (48, 12 of which arrived in time for the Winter War), Lithuania and Spain. France had 4500 in service in June 1940, most of which ended in German hands as FK97(f), 231(f) and 232(f) used for 2nd line troops and fortifications. The FK 97(f) has wheels and is the basic model. The modernized version (with pneumatics) is called FK 231(f) in German service. The FK 232(f) is the 75mm Mle97/33 AT gun version with a new split-trail carriage. Large numbers of Mle97/33 guns were sold from Army stocks to Brazil but enough remained for the Germans to take over in 1940.
In 1941, the Germans facing the T34 tanks in Russia converted in hurry about 800 75mm Mle1897 guns for anti-tank use (on the Pak38 carriage and with a muzzle break). It was called 7.5cm Pak 97/38. Later there were also several 7.5cm Pak 97/40 (Pak40 carriage) but they are much more rare guns. At first, ammunitions captured from France and Poland was used. With the German Gr 38/97 HL/B (f) and Gr 38/97 HL/C (f) HEAT shells, 96mm and 128mm thick armor could be penetrated at any distance. The Germans converted also some T26 in tank-destroyers armed with the Pak 97/38. These vehicles were called 7,5cm Pak 97/38 (f) auf Fahrgestel Panzerkampfwagen T26 (r). Only 10 of these vehicles were built during 1943 and issued to the 3rd company of the Pz. Jäg. Abt. 563. They were still all operational on 1st March 1944 when Marders replaced them.
Finland used also 46 Pak 97/38 AT guns. Compared to other Finnish AT guns these were very good so they were issued to units located all over the frontline. During the battles of summer 1944 seven guns of this type were lost. After WW2 the remaining 39 guns were kept warehoused until being sold to museums and collectors in 1986. During WW2 Rumania used also the 7.5cm PaK 97/38, probably equipments given by Germany when they replaced their guns.
When the USA had to make a choice of field gun to equip its army in view of its participation in WW1, they took the best candidate available at the time: the French 75mm Model 1897. Pressed into service by the thousands, there were still many of them in 1941 and, like their French colleagues, their career continued during WW2.
There is some confusion among the US models of the 75. You must distinguish the gun itself from its carriage. In US designation system, the carriage had designation independent from the gun fitted upon it. The same carriage may be used for several guns and one gun be fitted on several different carriages. Basically, there were four type of 75mm field guns, according to the US terminology : the 75 modèle 1897 was the French gun, built in France and given to the US Army. The M1897 was the US exact copy, built in the USA, while the 75mm M1897A2 and the 75mm M1897 A4 were US redesigns, both built solely in the USA.
The carriages were initially designated with a name starting with "M1897" followed by a letter and a digit. Later, it became "M2A1", "M2A2", ... The carriages changed more than the gun itself in the inter-war period, the most conspicuous change being the replacement of wooden spoke wheels by pneumatic ones.
In 1940, the British bought a batch of those guns and assigned them to their home defense units. They were renamed "Ordnance QF 75mm Mark I" and declared obsolete on March 8, 1945.
The M1897A4 is almost the only variant still extant when the USA entered the war in 1941. Since the appearance of the 105mm howitzer, the 75mm field gun had become obsolete but the needs were such that it was sent overseas in the Pacific as well as in North Africa, where it fought until late 1942. They were used as field guns bot also for example on the 75mm Gun Motor Carriage M3 and 75mm Gun Motor Carriage M3A1 halftracks.
Canon de 75mm L/36.3 Mle1897/33 (AT GUN)
Caliber : 75x350R mm
Length : 4.98m
Barrel length : 2721 mm (2229 mm rifling)
Width : 1.51m
Weight in action : 1500 kg
Weight in travel : 1550 kg
Elevation : -6° to +50°
Traverse : 58°
Practical AT range : 800m (maximum range 11100m)
Rate of fire : up to 28 rpm (10-12 rpm in sustained fire)
Crew : 1 NCO + 6 men
Penetration : 50mm /30° at 400m with obus de rupture Mle1910M (APHE) (V° = 580 m/s)
The 75mm Mle1897/33 had a new split-trail carriage and entered in service around 1935. It was present in the BDAC (= Batterie Divisionaire anti-char = AT divisional battery) for the protection of the light artillery regiment. Initially there should have been 12 guns in the BDAC but only batteries with 8 guns were constituted. All the 75mm Mle1897/33 guns were intended to be replaced by the better 47mm Mle1937 gun but not enough were available and in May / June 1940 several BDAC were still equipped with 75mm Mle1897/33 AT guns. The BDAC could also be mixed with 2 75mm Mle1897/33 and 6 47mm Mle1937 AT guns. Standard 75mm Mle1897 field guns were also used in AT tank role, either when integrated in defensive positions or simply to defend the artillery battery being overrun. Large numbers were sold from Army stocks to Brazil but enough remained for the Germans to take over in 1940. From 1935 on these guns had DS Michelin low-pressure tyres. The standard 75mm Mle1897 guns were also used in AT role, sometimes on Arbel Mle1935 platforms to have a 360° traverse.
Canon CA 75mm PF Mle1915 (fixed on plateform) - 7.5 cm Flak M15(f) - (AA GUN)
Calibre : 75x350R mm
Barrel length : 2720 mm (2230 mm rifling)
Battle-station weight : 2219 kg
Rate of fire : 12 rpm
Muzzle velocity : 580 m/s (projectile of 6 kg)
Traverse : 360°
Elevation : 0° to +75°
Maximum range : 6500 m
Autocanon de 75mm Mle1913/34 (self-propelled) (SPAA GUN)
Calibre : 75x350R mm
Barrel length : 2720 mm (2230 mm rifling)
Weight : 5880 kg
Rate of fire : 12 rpm
Muzzle velocity : 580 m/s (projectile of 6 kg)
Traverse : 237°
Elevation : 0° to +70°
Maximum range : 6500 m
In 1940 57 AA batteries were using the Autocanon de 75mm Mle1913/1934 ... A total of 236 of these SPAAs were used on 10th May 1940. The Germans captured many and still used 45 of them in May 1944.
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Main ammunitions :
Obus de rupture Mle1910M (APHE)
Caliber : 75x350R mm
Weight of projectile : 6.400 kg (90g explosive)
Length of projectile : 239.5mm
V° = 580 m/s
Practical AT range : 800-1000m
Penetration : 50mm /30° at 400m
Obus perforant AL (Allongé Lefèvre) Mle 1916 (APHE)
Caliber : 75x350R mm
Weight of projectile : 7.445 kg (350g explosive)
Length of projectile : 348mm
V° = 575 m/s
Practical AT range : 800m
Maximum range : 9500m
Penetration : 40mm /30° at 400m
Obus perforant AL (Allongé Lefèvre) Mle 1918 (APHE)
Caliber : 75x350R mm
Weight of projectile : 7.320 kg (325g explosive)
Length of projectile : 297mm
V° = 575 m/s
Practical AT range : 800m
Maximum range : 9500m
Penetration : 40mm /30° at 400m
The APHE shell is intended to detonate once the armor has been penetrated. Because of the necessity for a hard point to APHE shells, the fuze is fitted into the base of the projectile. This fuze acts through inertia. As the shell passes up the barrel, either the shock of firing or the rapid rotation removes a safety device and arms the fuze. This fuze contains roughly a weight held by a spring. When the shell hits something hard, momentum throws the weight forward so it strikes the firing element of the fuze and thereby ignites the HE filler of the APHE shell.
Obus explosif Mle1900N (HE)
Caliber : 75x350R mm
Weight of projectile : 5.400 kg (775g explosive)
Length of projectile : 280mm
V° = 575 m/s
Obus explosif Mle1915 (HE)
Caliber : 75x350R mm
Weight of projectile : 5.315 kg (740g explosive)
Length of projectile : 277mm
V° = 575 m/s
Obus explosif Mle1917 (HE)
Caliber : 75x350R mm
Weight of projectile : 6.125 kg (675g explosive)
Length of projectile : 303mm
V° = 577 m/s
Obus explosif Mle1918 (HE)
Caliber : 75x350R mm
Weight of projectile : 6.650 kg (435g explosive)
Length of projectile : 292mm
V° = 577 m/s
Obus explosif FA Mle1929 AL (HE)
Caliber : 75x350R mm
Weight of projectile : 6.960 kg (363g explosive)
Length of projectile : 320mm
V° = 590 m/s
Obus à balles (canister shell) "A" Mle1897
Caliber : 75x350R mm
Weight of projectile : 7.240 kg (110g explosive and 261x12g hardened lead balls)
V° = 535 m/s
Obus à balles (canister shell) "M" Mle1897/1911
Caliber : 75x350R mm
Weight of projectile : 7.400 kg (explosive and 240x hardened lead balls) (with 30/55 M13 fuze)
V° = 535 m/s
Obus à balles (canister shell) "A" Mle1897/1917
Caliber : 75x350R mm
Weight of projectile : 7.400 kg (113g explosive and 228x hardened lead balls) (with 30/55 M13 fuze)
V° = 535 m/s
Obus à balles (canister shell) Mle1926
Caliber : 75x350R mm
Weight of projectile : 7.240 kg (with 24/31 M16 or 24/31A M18 fuze)
V° = 535 m/s
Boîte à mitraille (shrapnel shell) Mle1913
Caliber : 75x350R mm
Weight of projectile : 7.250 kg
Efficient up to 300m against infantry
Obus fumigène Mle1915 (smoke shell)
Caliber : 75x350R mm
Weight of projectile : 5.315 kg (white phosphorous)
V° = 550 m/s
Obus éclairant Mle1916 (illuminating shell)
Caliber : 75x350R mm
DE 22/31 M9 fuze
time of illumination : 40 seconds
Obus incendiaire Mle1916 type G à charge mélangée (mixed charge incendiary shell)
Caliber : 75x350R mm
This shell had an instant fuze and included 6 tarred incendiary charges, black powder and lead bullets. It was therefore a combined explosive, incendiary and anti-personal shell. The lead bullets were probably able to pierce oil, fuel etc. tanks before the incendiary charges ignite fire.
Obus incendiaire Mle1916 type G à six feux (incendiary shell)
Caliber : 75x350R mm
This shell included 6 “thermite” incendiary charges burning during about 50 seconds, magnesium powder and black powder.
Brandt new generation shells
The studies led by Brandt in the 30's aimed to increase the initial velocity of the shells (without increasing of the chamber pressure) and also more generally to increase the penetration power of the shells. The French company Brandt developed series of sub-calibrated HVAP/APCR/APHC shells : 37/25mm, 75/57mm and also sub-calibrated projectiles for the 155mm and 203mm guns of the French navy. The other nations did not develop similar or equivalent systems before 1941/1942.
The 37/25mm subcalibrated shell with a 20mm core was tested but could not enter in service before the armistice. The V° was 850 m/s and it had the same penetration capacity than the 25mm SA34/37 AT gun. The same 37/25mm subcalibrated shell was also planned to be used in the 25mm SA34/37 AT gun, reaching in that case a V° of 1150 m/s, but the barrels had to be modified. The most outstanding realization is probably the 75/57mm shell with a muzzle velocity of 900 m/s and a penetration of 90mm/35° at 1000m ... The 75mm Mle1897 and Mle1897/33 guns could have engaged and destroyed the German Panzer IVs at 2500m in May/June if such shells would have been available !
Beside the sub-calibrated shells, Brandt also developed a 75mm HEAT shell at this time, using the patent of the Swiss Mohaupt. The tests took place in Bourges in 1940 and the results were that impressive that they were put in the secret immediately in order to avoid German capture.
On 14th June 1940, the French war ministry authorized Brandt to give all these info to the USA and the United Kingdom, including the exploitation licence for the Mohaupt patent. The inventor, Henry Mohaupt, by the intermediary of the Brandt company filed for US patent on 10th February 1941 and it is kept secret on 7th March 1941. The sub-calibrated shells were used in the UK as basis to develop the APDS shells (armored piercing discarded sabot) issued from 1942/1943. The first AT guns using them were the 6 Pdr and 17 Pdr AT guns.
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If you consider the 75mm Mle1928 Schneider barrel :
Canon de 75mm L/53 TAZ Mle1939 (Schneider) (TAZ = triflèche tous azimuts) (AA / AT GUN)
Caliber : 75x518R mm
Barrel length : 4000 mm (3250 mm rifling)
Battle-station weight : 2090 kg
Rate of fire : 20 rpm
Muzzle velocity : 700 m/s
Traverse : 360°
Elevation : 40°
Maximum range : 13000 m (3000m in AA role)
Penetration : 80mm at 1000m
The 75mm Mle1939 had a 3-trails carriage for a 360° traverse and should have replaced all the 75mm AT guns (75mm Mle1897 and Mle1897/33 used in AT role, 75x350R mm) (and part of the 47mm Mle1937 AT guns probaly) at the divisional level but it did not enter in service before the armistice. This gun could have used the Brandt sub-calibrated 75/57mm shells and Brandt HEAT projectiles which are tested in 1940 to even increase a lot the AT capacity.
Canon CA 75mm Mle1917/34 (Schneider) - 7.5 cm Flak M17/34(f) -
Caliber : 75x518R mm
Barrel length : 4000 mm (3250 mm rifling)
Battle-station weight : 4800 kg
Weight traveling : 4940 kg
Rate of fire : 20 rpm
Muzzle velocity : 700 m/s
Traverse : 360°
Elevation : 0° to +70°
Maximum range : 8000 m
Canon CA 75mm Mle1930 - 7.5 cm Flak M30(f) -
Calibre : 75x518R mm
Barrel length : 4000 mm (3250 mm rifling)
Battle-station weight : 3800 kg
Weight traveling : 4200 kg
Rate of fire : 20 rpm
Muzzle velocity : 700 m/s
Traverse : 360°
Elevation : -1° to +70°
Maximum range : 8000 m
Canon CA 75mm Mle1932 - 7.5 cm Flak M32(f) -
Caliber : 75x518R mm
Barrel length : 4050 mm (3250 mm rifling)
Battle-station weight : 3800 kg
Weight traveling : 5300 kg
Rate of fire : 25 rpm
Muzzle velocity : 700 m/s
Traverse : 360°
Elevation : -5° to +70°
Maximum range : 8000 m
Also adopted by Belgium under the name "75 mm ABS/FRC modèle 1936"
Canon CA 75mm Mle1933 - 7.5 cm Flak M33(f) -
Caliber : 75x518R mm
Barrel length : 4000 mm (3250 mm rifling)
Battle-station weight : 3730 kg
Weight traveling : 4200 kg
Rate of fire : 20 rpm
Muzzle velocity : 700 m/s
Traverse : 360°
Elevation : 0° to +75°
Maximum range : 8000 m
Canon CA 75mm Mle1939 (Schneider)
Caliber : 75x518R mm
Barrel length : 4000 mm (3250 mm rifling)
Battle-station weight : 3250 kg
Rate of fire : 20 rpm
Muzzle velocity : 700 m/s
Traverse : 360°
Elevation : 0° to +90°
Maximum range : 8000 m
Regards,
David
