M.K.B. Kernwerk H.v.Holland

[wimve]

... and some details.

The 4,7cm PAK 36
(Part from Mart Scholte Lubberink)

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[Juttertje]

Wim,

As always very impressive sketch-up
Can't even imagine the amount of work gone in this one.

Regards,

Bas

[jopaerya]

Hello Wim

Thanks for sharing these great 3D drawings of this typical , but very special bunker .

Regards Jos

P.S. I still searching for the 5 cm gunopening

[wimve]

Update:
After the 5cm info from Jos, there is now also a 5cm Kwk in the "kazemat".
The gun is drawn by Mart (thanks).

The gunroom as well as fire opening are drawn according to drawings. So should be more or less correct.
However as you can see the right seated gunner can't look through the fire opening. So where there right and left seated 5cm KwK guns ?

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Also I have a question about the concrete barrel block ouside the "scharte": would the be a device on top of it ?
Or is the gulley sloping down according to the angle of the barrel when you level it down to rest in it ? Or do I mis some other function

[Clive Mortimore]

Update:
After the 5cm info from Jos, there is now also a 5cm Kwk in the "kazemat".
The gun is drawn by Mart (thanks).

The gunroom as well as fire opening are drawn according to drawings. So should be more or less correct.
However as you can see the right seated gunner can't look through the fire opening. So where there right and left seated 5cm KwK guns ?

German tank guns had the gunner to the left and the loader to the right. The 5 cm KwK used in beach defence and in bunkers was adapted from the gun in the PzKfw III so would have retained this arrangement. The gun had reached its limits as a main battle tank weapon but was still useful as an antitank gun in the static role.

A gun with a right sided gunner would have meant a drastic redesign.

[wimve]

German tank guns had the gunner to the left and the loader to the right. The 5 cm KwK used in beach defence and in bunkers was adapted from the gun in the PzKfw III so would have retained this arrangement. The gun had reached its limits as a main battle tank weapon but was still useful as an antitank gun in the static role.

A gun with a right sided gunner would have meant a drastic redesign.

Thanks Clive.

Wim

[jopaerya]

Hello

Here a close-up of the 6-Schartenturm ( 40P8 ) during a visit of Gen.d.Fl. Christiansen ( W.B.N. )
on 11-02-1944 . looking at the piers , I think it's the 634 in the right corner of the Kernwerk .

Photo = Festung Hoek van Holland from H. Sakkers

Regards Jos

[AvB]

Also I have a question about the concrete barrel block ouside the "scharte": would the be a device on top of it ?
Or is the gulley sloping down according to the angle of the barrel when you level it down to rest in it ? Or do I mis some other function

The barrel would sink into the block.

Source: bunkersite.com

[Nectar]

The concrete slab is way too narrow for the barrel to fit into. Also the position of the slab makes me think that it is a obstacle for hand-granates thrown at the scharte. Hopefully the granate would stick or even deflect into the mundungsgasgrube below. Never seen or heard about it, but it seems rational?

[AvB]

Wim for your info:
This is what a 5cm KwK in a similar room looks like.

[der bunkermann]

hi maarten,
looking at the angle the concrete block was placed, it could have been built to make the barrel rest on top of it.

i don't think the hight of the
KwK is correct.

another option is that the hulsenauswurf is located behind the small wall, but it seems not a very effective way to get it in the hulsengrube?
it must be located in the floor or frontwall.

wim is there a hole vissible in the frontwall on the brv drawing?

gr, tim

[wimve]

Hi all,

Thanks for the ideas. But I am afraid we don't know yet.
First the height: Jos also told me it looks not correct but it is about 120cm above the gun room floor and this matches the height from a Jos's drawing of the cross section of the 5cm stand.
The height of the scharte however is given as 70cm and looking at the nice pictures of Arthur it looks as if this is altered.

On this picture you can see that there are two steel beams mounted above the opening and the sides look "re-done".

My idea is that the height of the scharte itself is lowered to 40cm (?) But I am open for any other idea.

The "barrel"block in front of the scharte looks like it could hold a barrel but it doesn't fit. Again by a nice picture of Arthur which I have altered (sorry) you can see why I think that:

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If you lower the barrel it will be under an angle pointing down. Due to the distance of the barrel's pivot to the front of the scharte this will be a rather big angle. You also see that the vertical opening in the shield for the barrel doesn't match the opening in the concrete of the scharte.

The last option: shell slide.
Well the drawing of Jos shows this part of the kazemat but not in detail. So there is no evidence of a pipe going down into the shell pit from the drawing. But again looking at the picture above, you would have to stand between the gun's shield and scharte to move the shell into it. Not a fine place to be in the middle of the fight.
So that doesn't look right either.

So it is all confusing to me.

[Clive Mortimore]

I agree that the KwK is mounted too high.

Inside of a PzIII the gun would be locked for travelling and when at rest, this is normal procedure for any gun to prevent damage and unnecessary wear to the elevating gear. A damaged elevating gear has a great effect on the accuracy to the range when firing. Inside the bunker was there the travel lock, if not then resting the barrel in the slot in the concrete block would achieve the same result.

[der bunkermann]

wim, note that the KwK on arthur's picture is placed in the bunker only couple of decades ago..
it was found in the water, so it could be from the other 667 at kornwederzand.
i don't have pictures of the mount, but who says that the gun in mounted on the behelfssockellafette in the right way?

looking at arthur's picture it seems to high, but we need more detailed picture of the mount to be sure.
the germans also made mistakes i think.

on you drawing it looks like there is enough space left on the leftside of the gunshield to have a hulsenauswurf in the wall.
but we are only speculating now

another thing to think about is:
if the barrel should fit in the concrete block, this will mean that the gun never will be able to fire at it's lowest angle (-5 degrees out of my head), because the bottom of the scharte is in the way

gr, tim

[wimve]

oke, one step back:

I got the 3Dmodel of the 5cm KwK from somebody else. I have ask how and where he got the dimensions and indeed it is partly taken from pictures the gun that is the one at kornwerderzand.
So the dimension don't have to be correct all the way.

So question is now: does anybody have dimensions of the 5cm Kwk ?
Esspecially from the shield and height of the barrel.