The incredible discovered one of a German site forgotten

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Ric
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The incredible discovered one of a German site forgotten

Post by Ric » 23 Jan 2006 11:00

Hello,

I read on the newspaper of West France ?
Titrates " The incredible discovered one of a German site forgotten "

Image

" Under brambles and a meter of ground, Gary Sterne rediscovered a complete whole of blockhouse of quartering German undergrounds and ammunition dump.

Since sixty years, which was undoubtedly the most significant battery of German defense coastal of the Second World war sommeillait under brambles and the ground in a field of Grandcamp-Maisy, in the Apple-brandy. Impassioned collector, the English Gary Sterne has just rediscovered it. Exceptional!
" Incredible, I do not return from there. This place is extraordinary. Nowhere elsewhere, one did not find such a device in such a good state of conservation. " Appointed of Bessin and child of the country, Jean-Marc Lefranc " is bluffé " by the discovery of Gary Sterne, subject British, set on military history and impassioned collector. Under brambles and a meter of ground, it rediscovered in Grandcamp-Maisy a complete whole of blockhouse, of quartering undergrounds and ammunition dump.

" It was known that there were two three blockhouses on the top of the field, but never I would not have imagined that ", is still astonished the deputy.

It is by consulting a German military chart of years 1940 that Gary Sterne makes its discovery . Fascinated, it flies away at once for Normandy. " not knowing where I went, J ' went through fields when suddenly I found myself on concrete. J ' followed this concrete to the edge of the trees, when J ' suddenly discovered the entry of a blockhouse, then of a tunnel, an office, warehouses of provisioning, headquarters, rooms of radio, the other blockhouses and, most significant, supports of guns of 155 mm. "

Neil Armstrong, when it posed the first foot on the moon, was undoubtedly not dazzled more. Then begin a long period of thorough research in the files of Washington and Berlin.

As large as the Point of Hoc

" They revealed me that in 1944, the battery of Maisy was a complex of headquarters for the coastal protection of the beach of Omaha. Its artillery included/understood four guns of 105 mm, three in frames and one in a field, six howitzers of 155 mm in places in the open air, an English gun 25 PDR taken in Dunkirk, two anti-tank guns of 50 mm, two tanks Renault turret assembled on frame, without forgetting the machine-guns and rifles. "

Gary Sterne does not have any more qu ' only one goal: to acquire the grounds to be able to pick the ground. After several months of discrete work, the result is without call: the site is as large as that of the Point of Hoc, in an almost perfect state of conservation.

How could one forget such a place that Rangers succeeded in taking, three days after the Unloading, at the end of engagements to the body with body? Gary Sterne has an explanation. " the" Guide Michelin "1947 of the battle fields had omitted to index it. Since, it was regularly republished without never to be corrected. "

Missing part of the Unloading?

Would fabulous testimony, the battery of Maisy be the missing part of the Unloading? " One questioned knowledge where were the guns of the Point of Hoc. The fire power of the battery of Maisy and its establishment let think that it was it which rammed the beach of Omaha. The battery of the Point of Hoc would then have been only one clever trick of Rommel intended to mislead the Allies. "

Of not to doubt, the discovery of Gary Sterne did not finish making speak."


you think what of this battery of it forgotten ?


Batteries of Cotentin
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/batteries.du.cotentin/
Image
The site is in French
Last edited by Ric on 28 Jan 2006 10:59, edited 1 time in total.

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Tarjei
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Post by Tarjei » 23 Jan 2006 14:00

That's great, but why broadcast it like that? Now the looters and the hooligans will come running to tear the place apart....
If the site is as large as they say, there's no way of guarding it....

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kstdk
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Post by kstdk » 23 Jan 2006 14:18

Hello all

Sorry to have to inform this:

http://forum.7grad.org/viewtopic.php?t=423

It has been around on several forums as of now, but the "Exceptional Story" is not so exeptional after all.

It is a ordinary HKB at Grandcamp Maisy, well known - but deserted and in waste land until now.

The new owner has renovated the site and cleaned the place up, and now it is about making some attention - before the new season of tourists sets in !!!

Its advertisement, and all about making money for a new exibition in Normandy - and to make some attention - in close run with all the other museums and sites of World War II in the area.

My source in the above link, is a very reliable and also local source.

Regards
Kurt
kstdk.

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kstdk
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Post by kstdk » 23 Jan 2006 20:05

Hello

I just forgot. It is the following sites in Grandcamp Maisy we are talking about:

Wn. 83 Maisy La Perruque - with 6 x 15.5 cm. FH 413 guns

Wn. 84 Maisy La Martiniere - with 4 x 10,5 cm. LeFH18 guns

All well documented and described !!

See update: http://forum.7grad.org/viewtopic.php?t=423

But, all the same...a quite interesting site afterall !!!

Information from: Le mur de látlanttique en normandie from A. Chazette. ( via Jos )

Regards
Kurt
kstdk.

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kstdk
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Post by kstdk » 23 Jan 2006 22:10

Hello all

Just got this from Normandy:

http://www.armourer.co.uk/maisybattery.htm

Regards
Kurt
kstdk

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Ric
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Post by Ric » 24 Jan 2006 14:17

Hello all

Indeed I think that the battery by itself is not unknown for the bunkers archaeologist.
Its site is marked on many chart in the files.
But as that at summer practised after war much of battery one filled with ground by the authorities of the time is forgotten voluntarily.
They exist still many batteries covered with vegetation and of engraved forgotten which would have deserved a restoration for the historical importance which represented.

Batteries of Cotentin
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/batteries.du.cotentin/
Image
The site is in French

dando
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Post by dando » 31 Jan 2006 00:22

Its interesting to see my site being written about by people who have never visited it. So, I will try and give you some information and perhaps then the rubbish being written here and by the papers can stop.

The site has a large number of buildings, I have realeased a few of the photographs which were also given to the papers - the 700 other photographs I have are not being released yet as the site is being made the subject of a BBC History documentary. The site is surrounded by 2 metre high fences and I alone have the keys. As soon as I am given written permission by the authorities the site will open to the public.

Meanwhile....The medals in the Sun Newspaper have been adequately explained. Not my idea - neither was the Suns Veronica using a helmet as a toy which appeared in some editions.

Down to more serious stuff.... the site was important for a number of reasons and yes you have missed the point entirely sir. I will give you only facts - not things which may be supposition and then you can make informed statements about the site.

1) It is 2 miles from Pointe du Hoc and it had 6 x 155mm SFH414(f) Howitzers, 1 x 25pdr British Cannon (taken at Dunkirk). 2 x 50mm KwK cannons, 2 x 37mm Flak, numerous 20mm Flak, 2 Renault Tank Turrets - I have the numbers of MGs and rifles issued etc but forget for now. At the left edge of the site and beyond my land are 3 casements for 10.5cm cannons and there was another in a field in an open emplacement. ---- thats alot more firepower than at Pointe du Hoc. All visible on the RAF reconaissance photographs and the GSGS Inteligence Maps of 1944. Most people have only see the 3 x 10.5cm casements down the lane and think that is Maisy Battery - incorrect - that was just the left hand side of it. !

2) There were 8 x 88mm AA cannons in the field in front and 4 in the field behind. Pointe du Hoc had 3 x 20mm AA cannons (grossly inadequate) and in the field to its left there was a dummy AA battery designed to fool the allies on aerial photographs - it was found by the Rangers and was made of wood.

3) At Maisy you have a number of 622 personnel bunkers - nothing unusual about that. However, in the centre of the site you have a 502 Headquarters building - it is also interesting because it has provision for 4 aerials and a periscope - rather than the normal 2 aerial mounts. There was also a substantial Aerial approx 15 metres in height which was destroyed by bombing on the 6th of June. This not only denotes that it is most likely a Divisional HQ but that it was a large one. None similar can be found at Pointe du Hoc.

4) The site has an underground field hospital - probably about the size of 4 terraced houses. A good size - there is nothing like this at Pointe du Hoc.

5) To keep the feel of the original wartime site I have dug all the original trenches back to their original depth. We went down to the old railway sleepers in the trench floor and followed them around the site at varying depths. No extra or unnessary trenches have been added anywhere.

6) The Germans at no point along the Atlantic Wall (with the exception of big ports) placed 2 x 155mm batteries next to each other. There was absolutely no point. Pointe du hoc was a bluff and on D-day it did its job as Maisy was still firing for 3 days until taken by the US Rangers on the 9th of June.

7) As for the cannons etc destroyed behind Pointe du Hoc.
Sgt Lommels own words state that the guns had wheels above their heads.... (read the armourer website for more detailed information.) http://www.armourer.co.uk
The guns at Pointe du Hoc you will remember from Rommels PR visit in 1943 were a long barrelled 155mm Cannon. Not a 155mm Field Howitzer. The difference being that the Howitzer has a large wheel - typically the size of a man and the cannons shown at Pointe du Hoc on the film have a small 1 metre high wheel. ERGO. The two sets of Cannons/Howitzers cannot be the same. Therefore there is no evidence that the guns at Pointe du Hoc were even there in 1944. They were certainly not in the open pits at Pointe du Hoc on the reconnaissance photographs of 1944 as the pits were empty.
The casements of which only 2 are finished structurally and one three quarters finished do not have any steel mounting brackets fitted and could not have held a cannon on D-day or before. They are still not finished now !!
Its also worth noting that a 155mm deck mounted cannon would not fit into these casements as they are too small (See Longues Battery). A 10.5cm Howitzer would however fit if they were finished. But 155mm - impossible.

So..... you have a gun battery which is standing out in the open and is being publicly displayed for all to see and another 2 miles away with virtually the same fields of fire in a 42 hectare militarised zone and completely set below ground level..... I would say that was a significant find after 60 years wouldnt you.?

Just for those who say it wasnt firing at Omaha for three days. I have copies of General Bradleys G3 battle reports for the 1st infantry division at Omaha on 6th, 7th and 8th June 1944 - Maisy is repeatedly mentioned as firing at Omaha - information which is easily proved if you look at the papers.

The person who wrote that Maisy was being run with other attractions in the area... please can you give me information about this as its the first I have heard. Gossip is the food for old women - stick to the facts.

Gary

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Post by jopaerya » 31 Jan 2006 08:13

Hi Gary

I am happy for you that you have your batterie and I am not jealious .
First all realy important Division batteries had schartenbunkers like 669, 611 and 612 and
134 ammobunkers .
Second the flakbatteries from the 32 Flakregiment ( 3 Flakkorps ) were there just for
3 days , orders from Rommel the batteries of the 3 Flakkorps were along Normandie coast.
The bunkers at Maisy are not vey special just a normal 502 and bettungen , and yes I
have been there and the bunkers were open and not covered with soil only sticky branches.
There is no other H.Q. in the batterie than the one for the batterie itself , what is special that
the 2 Maisy batteries had troops from the 716 I.D. and not from the 352 I.D. maybe that is the
reason for the 4 aerials .
9/1716 ( Maisy ) 4 x 15,5 cm s.F.H.414 (f) and 1 x 7,62 F.K. your batterie
8/1716 ( Brasilia ) 4 x 10 cm le. F.H. 14/19 (t) 4 x 612
For the H.K.B. Pointe de Hoc 2/1260 the guns 6 x 15,5 cm K 418 (f) were not on the site because
of the building of the schartenbunkers .

That are the German facts and no gossip , what I don't like is to prentend that you found a "new" batterie
and that is was put under soil and that it's a very special place related to D.Day , there are 1000 of places
that are special in the Atlantikwall . At last I think you under estimated the media attention .

Regards Jos

P.S. It's good that bunkers are restored

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kstdk
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Post by kstdk » 31 Jan 2006 08:57

Hello Gary

I also think it is god to hear from "the man himself" !!

And as Jos already stated "It is a very god thing that bunker sites are restored and that history is told"

You write that all this topic is written by people who has never been there - and i must say just the opposite - most contributors here HAS been ther - and for years back ( 20 - 30 years ago ) I myselve were there back in 1999 and again in 2004.

I have been travelling in France since 1992 - visiting the Atlanticwall sites - so i think it is most seriously people you are dealing with here, dont you ??

We also have visited BA-MA in Freiburg for the original German documents to verify our sources, and whats been told here does not correspond with the German files.

The whole point has been brought up with what the news media is saying / writing - and serious "bunkerpeople" dont like history being twisted for the reason of "mediascoop" - not all publicity are god publicity !!!

And you yourselve are saying that not all ( far from all ) whats up in the media about your site is correct and intended that way it has come out, right ??

The last from me, is that i think you are doing a fine job restoring the site, and keep up the god work ( and you see that is also not issue here - but the news thing are ) and i will certainly visit the restored site to see for myselve - you´ve got my attention !!

God luck in future !!

Regards
Kurt
kstdk

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kstdk
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Post by kstdk » 31 Jan 2006 09:10

Hello Gary

And your question about my statement about your site was run together with others in the area - meaning under same management - YOU are wrong. I said the words here:


kstdk wrote:Hello all
Its advertisement, and all about making money for a new exibition in Normandy - and to make some attention - in close run with all the other museums and sites of World War II in the area.

Regards
Kurt
kstdk.


Meaning your "Advertisement" and your need for attention were in close run with the other sites and museums - to attract the same ammount of customers.

Regards
Kurt
kstdk.
Last edited by kstdk on 31 Jan 2006 14:11, edited 1 time in total.

AvB
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Post by AvB » 31 Jan 2006 09:47

Gary,

Watch out with allied reports on batteries and their activities.
They often misinterpret aerial photos and findings on the site itself.
It's better to check both German and allied documents and then compare them,
to 'translate' the allied documents.
As said before, we as 'bunker archeologists' travel from Norway to the Côte d'Azur
and further, looking for bunkers beneath thick layers of brambles and rubble
all the time! It's a discovery for you but for us it's a known location, just difficult
to oversee.

Comparing the site with Pointe du Hoc makes no sense either as it's different kind of
complex. Inland battery vs Coast battery.
Bunker typologically speaking Pointe du Hoc is more interesting than the Maisy
batteries.

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simondodkins
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Post by simondodkins » 31 Jan 2006 10:12

dando wrote:.. I would say that was a significant find after 60 years wouldnt you.?

Gary


With respect thats only a claim other historians can make once a full interpretation of the facts are clear.

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bunker14
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Post by bunker14 » 31 Jan 2006 16:35

Hi

where have you got your information about the 2 Renault Tank Turrets????
I visited this battery some years ago.

juste for information you can find a R502 at maisy and at the Point du Hoc to!!!

MAisy: bunker type
2x 622
1x 502
2x Vf7b sk

Pointe du Hoc: bunker type:
2X 694 (for 155mm)!!!
2X 622
1X 661 hospital bunker
1X 502
4X 134
2X L409A for Tow 37mmFlak

I think Point du hoc is biger than Maisy!!!!

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kstdk
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Post by kstdk » 02 Feb 2006 17:24

Hello all

Let this speak for itself - maybe there is more to this, than we knew before:

http://www.channel4.com/news/special-re ... sp?id=1619

Regards
Kurt
kstdk.

jopaerya
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Post by jopaerya » 02 Feb 2006 19:48

Hello

The cruiser H.M.S. Hawkins opened fire on 06-06-1944 on the Maisy
batterries , both batteries were put out of action after several direct hits .

Source = History of United States Naval Operations in World War II Vol XI
Samuel Eliot Morison - Boston 1960 page 104

On 06-06-1944 116 Allied bombers dropped 592 ton bombs on Maisy .

Source = Artillerie in Küstenkampf Wehrwissenschaftliche Berichte Band 7
Wilhelm von Harnier - Munchen page 90

Durch die Wirkung der Schiffs-Artillerie wurden nach und nach die Waffen bzw. die
Kampfanlagen zerstört oder stark beschädigt und die Masse der in feldmässigen ein-
gesezten schw. Waffen der 352 I.D. vernichtet .

Source = Kriegestagbuch der 352 Infanteriedivision BAMA R.H. 19 IX/2

15,5 cm s. F.H. 414 (f) don't flip over from firering shells

Photo = Le Mur de L'Atlantique en Normandie 1944
Alain Chazette and Alain Destouches

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