Strange concrete structure in R 611 & R 669

[Robert Dehon]

Gentlemen,

Those concrete appendices are discovered on the right side of the embrasure (seen from the kampfraum), sketch added from the exterior. The only one who discussed this feature but without giving a straight answer is late Ph. Francart in his “Mur de l’Atlantique en Belgique”.
Has anyone of you studied those strange structures?
Next time I’ll visit StP Bamburg I’ll measure the appendice.
Cordially,

Robert Dehon

[jopaerya]

Hi Robert

The strange structure is called "Schartenverkleinerung"
always on the right side of the gun as you can see on
the drawing .

Regards Jos

[ducatim901]

Well Robert,
Now do you believe me...........
But Jos i do not see the concrete block on your picture, but i am convinced
that it is to make the scharte smaller, on the most guns the gunsight
(for aiming) is on the left side of the gun so there was no block.
For so far my thoughts.............
Greetings Jack

Maybe till this summer when I will try to visit the Fort Creche.

[Erik E]

From an R680.....
Actually the only one in Norway

EE

[Robert Dehon]

Dear Jos, Jack and Erik,

Well, before all thanks for the documents, I’m beginning to see the light… through the scharte.
Jack’s question is yet interesting. If the scharte aperture should be diminished for a reason or another, I then suppose they would position one or several steel plates bolted together against our concrete structure? How the plates were secured in place against the concrete?
I’ll come again concerning the R 669 for two another strange features I don’t know what about.
All the best,

Robert

[jopaerya]

Hi Jack

What I try to say is that the "Schartenverkleinerung"
was always on the right side and not that the strange
structure was on the drawing , because it changes in
form for every type of gun used in the bunker .

Regards Jos

[jopaerya]

Hello All

Found a drawing of the 669
with the "Schartenverkleinerung"

Regards Jos

[Panzerfaust60]

What is the "Schartenverkleinerung" for?

[jopaerya]

Hello Panzerfaust60

The "Schartenverkleinerung" is a extra concrete slab to protect
the opening of the bunker from incoming shells or rockets .

Regards Jos

[Panzerfaust60]

Hi jopaerya
I don't understand, do incoming shells come more on the 10 cm (or something) to the right where the "Schartenverkleinerung" iss than the rest of the scharte?

[jopaerya]

Hello Panzerfaust60

The problem is that the R. 611 or R. 669 were made to
house guns from 7,5 cm up to 15,5 K. 425 (f) , all with
different measurments ,wheels and gunshields .
To get a minimal opening of the bunker together with the
gunshield of the gun , they add extra concrete slabs on the
sides of the gunopening .
And offcouse a direct hit in the frontopening and gun room
is deadly .

Regards Jos

P.S. Thanks for the blueprint of the R. 700

[Robert Dehon]

Dear all,
Once again thank you for your help. Mainly Jos with his splendid plans (and patience).
Some questions are still on the bench but the truth is out there.
To end the matter I'll add I was right to ask those questions a second time on an other forum. Indeed the historian being professionnal or not is bound to cross information.
All the best,
Robert

[jopaerya]

Hello Robert

I do like your questions , so please post theme
here and I don't mind if you are a little bit stubborn
I am very , very stubborn that the only way
to get the right answers and information .

Regards Jos

[Chazette]

Schartenverkleinerung missing : on all Regelbau 669 Equipped for 15,2 cm K.433 (r)
and some Regelbau 669 Equipped for 12,2 cm K.390 (r) but not all !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[wimve]

Good discussion here: one more question. Are these "Scharteverkleinerungen" made during the build or afterwards ?
looking at the picture I was wondering why the "lumb"of concrete "hangs"from the ceiling and doesn't cover the whole side.