Regelbau 514

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jopaerya
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Re: Regelbau 514

Post by jopaerya » 25 Jun 2017 09:32

The drawing from Natter has exact the same groundplan as the bunkers on the C.I.

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M19 MADMAL
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Re: Regelbau 514

Post by M19 MADMAL » 25 Jun 2017 11:13

Natter wrote:Drawing from Übersicht der Regelbauten und Zusammenstellung des Eisenbetonbedarfs für die Regelbauten (1942).
Hi,

Very interesting drawing! 8-)

:idea: So does this mean the Unterstand/WaKoFest = Wa.Pruf. Fest Unterstande is a Regelbau 514? :?

Regards,
Malcolm :milwink:
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Natter
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Re: Regelbau 514

Post by Natter » 25 Jun 2017 12:06

Forgot to mention that 514, 515 and 531 are listed as "Regeltyp für Kanal-inseln", while 501, 502, 105ab, 117a and 119a are listed as "Regeltyp für Küstenwall".

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Natter
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Re: Regelbau 514

Post by Natter » 25 Jun 2017 12:10

Natter wrote:Drawing from Übersicht der Regelbauten und Zusammenstellung des Eisenbetonbedarfs für die Regelbauten (1942).
From the same:
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M19 MADMAL
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Re: Regelbau 514

Post by M19 MADMAL » 25 Jun 2017 12:34

Natter wrote:Forgot to mention that 514, 515 and 531 are listed as "Regeltyp für Kanal-inseln", while 501, 502, 105ab, 117a and 119a are listed as "Regeltyp für Küstenwall".
Nice! 8-) :thumbsup:

Only the 514 was constructed in the C.I. and not the 515 or 531.

Regards,
Malcolm :milwink:
"I had expected only ruins", "It's as if I had only left the bunker yesterday!"
Herr Engelbert Hoppe. M19 bunker Commander 1944/45 when he first returned in 2006.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/StrongpointCorbiereJersey/

grappener
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Re: Regelbau 514

Post by grappener » 25 Jun 2017 12:35

Malc.

Very exciting. Natter had found exactly what we have been looking for!

So can it be the design was 'cascaded' from the 1941 WaPruFest designs and the given a new Regalbau number?

Natter you also seem to say there might be a separate list just for the kanalinseln? Of which the U. \WaKoFest aka U.\WaPrüFest aka Regalbau Type 514 seems to be one.

Does this mean the experimental designs were finally given a full official designation in 1942?

Amazing work ☺ thanks for posting.

G.

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Re: Regelbau 514

Post by grappener » 25 Jun 2017 15:44

Hi All,

Looks like Natter has really helped us down here in the C.I.

And another question creeps in, the nice table shows "Demand for Reinforced Concrete" and offers TWO additional ways of building the bunker with 1.5m Walls & 2m Cover, or 1.5m Walls and 1.5m Cover!! So these bunkers could be built three different ways , not just in "B" Grade?


It also shows the "Saving compared to the B Grade" in terms of Reinforced Concrete.

So can anyone help develop this idea. A table like this would be useful if you only had a certain amount of resources and need to spread those resources to meet the stated aims of bunkers being built, it seems to allow some choice if forced into decisions like that. Does anyone know if similar was done for the 600 series or other bunkers? Or indeed is this table use for other purposes>

If that's the case....we're going to have to get our tape measure out! :-)

cheers

G.

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M19 MADMAL
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Re: Regelbau 514

Post by M19 MADMAL » 25 Jun 2017 19:58

AvB wrote:Because I really like this compact bunker I'm trying to find all existing 514s.

Bruckenkopf Warschau 13x? 1 intact?
Galindestellung, Poland 2x intact.
Grenzstellung Lublin, 1 x intact
Grenzstellung Galizien, Poland 3x intact?
Spichernstellung, near Saarbrücken 1x?
Any more places?

It looks like it was only built in a very short time period in 1940 when all these new lines were built on new claimed land.
It must have been forbidden to use it after this period because otherwise it would be a great Atlantikwall casemate?
Hi all,

Is seems unusual to give two different Army bunker designs the same Regelbau number. Are there other examples of this being done?

Regards,
Malcolm :milwink:
"I had expected only ruins", "It's as if I had only left the bunker yesterday!"
Herr Engelbert Hoppe. M19 bunker Commander 1944/45 when he first returned in 2006.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/StrongpointCorbiereJersey/

jopaerya
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Re: Regelbau 514

Post by jopaerya » 25 Jun 2017 20:26

If you see the last document of Natter and his post, the three bunker are not called Regelbauten
but Nr 514 Kanalinsel so maybe a local line of bunkers . Love to see the Nr 516 till the Nr 530 :D

Regards Jos

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Natter
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Re: Regelbau 514

Post by Natter » 25 Jun 2017 21:21

jopaerya wrote:the three bunker are not called Regelbauten
Not in that list, but it's called regelbauten elsewhere in the document (ref viewtopic.php?f=70&t=181316&p=2085061 ).

I'm not sure if "regelbau" is a litteral term, or if they simply use it as a term for "standardized constructions" in general though?

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Re: Regelbau 514

Post by jopaerya » 26 Jun 2017 08:08

You are right Natter

But the extra name Kanalinsel makes me think they are from a other row the standard 500 row,
a typical example is the Regelbau 515 ( Schartenstand ) was build till 09-03-1943 .

Regards Jos
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dirk Peeters
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Re: Regelbau 514

Post by dirk Peeters » 26 Jun 2017 08:40

IMG_5425.jpg
hello
the 514 is placed on the drawing from Natter in a red circle
in the westwall they called this style Rote nr series where the natter zeichnung seems to fit in ... but in this series there is an MG Stand for 514
after 1940-41 this wasn t in use anymore
can there be a connection?
Dirk
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grappener
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Re: Regelbau 514

Post by grappener » 26 Jun 2017 09:50

Thanks Natter, Jos and Dirk......this is shaping well.

So it seems like there is a Westwell 514 .....which is an MG Bunker possibly discontinued as Dirk mentions in 1941. And the new designation of:

Kanalinseln Type 514 Gruppenunterstand

Not. ......Regelbau Type 514 Gruppenunterstand

Is that the right way to express things with this new 1942 evidence? Which supercedes the WaPruFest number as it has been given a 500 series one.....albeit local to the Channel Islands.

Not sure if that's the way everyone sees it but by all means please add to this great discussion ☺

Cheers

G.

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AvB
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Re: Regelbau 514

Post by AvB » 26 Jun 2017 09:58

I think you're right in this. Theres clearly no 'Regelbau' in front of the number. In the Entwicklungsbericht WaKoFest the bunkers didn't receive a type number, just a designation: group bunker, double group etc. The drawing number is not the type number.

grappener
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Re: Regelbau 514

Post by grappener » 26 Jun 2017 19:08

Hey Arthur!

Hope you are well!

This is a good old thread huh? I guess the last piece of evidence that we'd all love to see is something tieing up the "transition" from the Entwicklungsbericht 1941 Designs, to this new 1942 Document for the Kanalinseln Type 514.

Gets me thinking there must have been a "process" for adopting the early designs, what else might lurk out there? :-)

cheers
G.

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