DPA: "Haenel is to supply new assault rifle."

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Hans1906
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DPA: "Haenel is to supply new assault rifle."

Post by Hans1906 » 06 Oct 2020 14:36

Good afternoon,

the next "Sturmgewehr" for the german army will be produced and delivered by the C.G. Haenel company in Suhl, Thüringen.

The Haenel MK 556
Wikipedia (G) https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haenel_MK_556

Haenel History: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/C._G._Haenel

What are your opinions?

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Hans1906
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Re: DPA: "Haenel is to supply new assault rifle."

Post by Hans1906 » 06 Oct 2020 20:15

Heckler & Koch was kicked out of business, a first 250 Million order of weapons,
not exactly pocket money...

Hans

Trained on the very reliable Heckler & Koch G3 in the 1970s, nice Sturmgewehr in typical german tradition,
what comes next, I do not even like to imagine, german/chinese cheap "who gives a shit". :?

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Poot
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Re: DPA: "Haenel is to supply new assault rifle."

Post by Poot » 08 Oct 2020 03:31

I'm underwhelmed. It looks somewhat like what I had...10 years ago.

Kudos for using a user-modified rail system for mounting of optics, light and PEQs, but the stock looks over-engineered and the grip is very much a holdover from about the mid-2000s; there are many more and much better options out there. How much discretion will the individual soldier have in configuring the rifle to their anticipated mission set? What is the twist rate of the barrel? What type(s) and weight of ammunition will be used?

Pat
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Re: DPA: "Haenel is to supply new assault rifle."

Post by ROLAND1369 » 08 Oct 2020 12:24

Unless the opening in the magazine is a clear plastic viewing port this is a serious defect for dirt and moisture entrance. The open magazine went out with the disastrous Chau Chau in WWI.

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Poot
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Re: DPA: "Haenel is to supply new assault rifle."

Post by Poot » 08 Oct 2020 18:15

ROLAND1369 wrote:
08 Oct 2020 12:24
Unless the opening in the magazine is a clear plastic viewing port this is a serious defect for dirt and moisture entrance. The open magazine went out with the disastrous Chau Chau in WWI.
It's the round count 'window' in the side of every Gen.3 PMAG, it's not open to the elements.
He who lives by the sword, should train with it frequently.

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Re: DPA: "Haenel is to supply new assault rifle."

Post by JTV » 08 Oct 2020 21:13

IMO Haenel MK 556 is a not a bad choice, although in a way rather boring one. AR-15/M16/M4 based rifles are well on their way of becoming de facto standard rifle type for NATO countries.

Hans1906. I have had experience of working with troops of two countries, which still use(d) G3 rifles and the opinion among ranks in both cases was basically "we wish that we could get these replaced with new 5.56 mm rifles as soon as possible". There are number of very valid reasons for that. This sort of rifles are lighter, handier and faster & easier to use. They are also much more controllable than G3, which allows faster aimed follow-up shots and makes rifle quite controllable even in full-auto mode. Major improvements over G3 include also modular design, which allows parts (will all sorts of stuff available from huge variety of manufacturers) to be replaced with minimal tools at most. Not to mention standardized rail system, which is now de-facto worldwide industry standard and allows huge variety of accessories such as optics, grips, lights, lasers, bipods etc to be installed or removed.

Most militaries tend to favour to equip this sort of rifles issued to their troops for specific roles (rifleman, designated marksman, grenadier etc), which is easy to do thanks to rifles modular design and rail system.

Poot. What the sources tell the barrel twist is 1/7. What I have read in other places the pistol grip shown in the photo (taken from Haenel website) is the same that will be included to rifles that go to Bundeswehr.

Wikipedia's of Bundeswehr 5.56 ammo:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.56%C3%9745mm_NATO

The rifle is intended to be manufactured in four barrel length options reaching from 10.5 to 16.1 inches. The advantages and problem points of short stroke gas piston system (vs. direct impingement) can be argued, but it makes sense for rifles with shortest (10.5 and 12.5 inch) barrel options or if some of the rifle versions are going to be used with suppressor.

Optics shown in the photo appear to be Aimpoint Micro T2, which would be a good choice for red-dot sight.

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Re: DPA: "Haenel is to supply new assault rifle."

Post by Hans1906 » 09 Oct 2020 10:48

Good morning,

interview with weapons expert Herr Lars Winkelsdorf on the german news channel "Welt" about
the Haenel MK 556, from september 15th, 2020:

Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxDldtrD_A0

Hans1906

I have watched an english language technical docu about the Haenel 556 two days ago, about 5 minutes short, but very
informative, sorry, not able to find the video again... :(

Having served in the Bundeswehr in the late 1970s, I am for sure somewhat traditional about small firearms,
the Gewehr G3, the Pistole P3, the Maschinengewehr MG3, and the Maschinenpistole Uzi, etc.

I had three H&K G3, two of them produced in the 1960s, old, and worn out barrels, one with a late production number from the 1970s,
the best and most precise assault rifle I have ever used, without question.

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Re: DPA: "Haenel is to supply new assault rifle."

Post by JTV » 09 Oct 2020 17:47

Kind of a surprise twist - according latest news the order that Bundeswehr made to Haenel has been withdrawn today.

Some sources:
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/202 ... nel-mk556/
https://www.mdr.de/thueringen/bundesweh ... l-100.html
https://www.businessinsider.de/politik/ ... htswidrig/

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Hans1906
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Re: DPA: "Haenel is to supply new assault rifle."

Post by Hans1906 » 09 Oct 2020 18:24

JTV,

all this was to be expected, as long as political idiots have to decide about a weapon for a soldier.

People, who never fired a single shot from any weapon, not even to talk about a "Sturmgewehr", they decide about all this.
Democracy, later they put flowers on the graves of the fallen soldiers, with a huge regret, because the damn gun failed once again in Afghanistan...

Oha!

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Re: DPA: "Haenel is to supply new assault rifle."

Post by Hisname » 10 Oct 2020 07:48

Eigentlich sollte das neue Sturmgewehr der Bundeswehr von der thüringischen Waffenschmiede C.G. Haenel produziert werden. Doch nun macht das Verteidigungsministerium einen Rückzieher. Für Konkurrent Heckler & Koch ein Erfolg.

Das Bundesverteidigungsministerium hat die geplante Vergabe des Großauftrags für das neue Sturmgewehr der Bundeswehr an den thüringischen Hersteller C.G. Haenel zurückgezogen. Das Ministerium begründete den Schritt mit möglichen Patentrechtsverletzungen durch das Unternehmen zulasten des Mitbewerbers Heckler und Koch. Dieser hatte Beschwerde gegen den Zuschlag für C.G. Haenel eingereicht. Die Vergabestelle des Bundes werde nun "in eine Neubewertung der Angebote unter Berücksichtigung aller Aspekte eintreten", teilte das Ministerium mit.


https://www.n-tv.de/wirtschaft/Haenel-v ... 89917.html

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Re: DPA: "Haenel is to supply new assault rifle."

Post by Poot » 13 Oct 2020 07:25

Some background to the latest decision (in English) can be found here:
https://www.overtdefense.com/2020/10/09 ... nel-mk556/
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Re: DPA: "Haenel is to supply new assault rifle."

Post by Hans1906 » 16 Oct 2020 13:10

Thanks Poot,

latest news:
"Failed assault rifle tender in the German armed forces: Is it really only about infringed Heckler & Koch patents?"

Source: https://www.businessinsider.de/politik/ ... spioniert/


Hans1906

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Poot
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Re: DPA: "Haenel is to supply new assault rifle."

Post by Poot » 18 Oct 2020 08:33

What a damned shame. It will be a good day when the politicians stop being politicians and give the warfighters what they need to defeat the enemy.

That same sentiment should be extended toward the Polizei and their current 'rules of engagement' against those who would do harm to the people in their protection.
He who lives by the sword, should train with it frequently.

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