Polish maschine guns used by germans in WW2.

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AETIUS 1980
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Polish maschine guns used by germans in WW2.

Post by AETIUS 1980 » 13 Oct 2021 14:53

Hello,
I come to the world of weapons specialists to know some details of information troubling me. On the Gliederung of the 716.Inf.Div of December 1942, I see s.MG.25 (p), while in August 1943, I find s.MG.14 (p). These are not striking eerrators since the chiose reproduces over the following months.Could someone tell me about it.
Thank you
AETIUS

gebhk
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Re: Polish maschine guns used by germans in WW2.

Post by gebhk » 13 Oct 2021 22:24

Best guess - the s.MG.25(p) is the Mle 1914 hotchkiss rechambered for Mauser ammunition (ckm wz.25) while the s.MG.14(p) I can only think is a bog-standard Mle 1914, only captured in Poland where it was known as the ckm wz. 14.
Last edited by gebhk on 14 Oct 2021 10:18, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Polish maschine guns used by germans in WW2.

Post by AETIUS 1980 » 14 Oct 2021 04:59

Thank you very much
I appreciate
Regards
AETIUS

gebhk
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Re: Polish maschine guns used by germans in WW2.

Post by gebhk » 14 Oct 2021 12:08

This has aroused my curiosity somewhat.

Basically, 1250 ckm wz 25 were purchased in France 1925/6. These were utterly crap as, among other things, the barrels were not adapted. This resulted in very poor accuracy and overheating with rounds potentially cooking off in the gun and very short barrel life. Consequently they were rapidly withdeawn from the infantry (even the worn out WW1 surplus Mle 14s with their non-standard ammunition were preferred!) and subsequently everywhere else once the wz 30 became available in quantity. 'The majority' of wz 25s, later received new Polish-made barrels and were used by the armoured arm in Fenault FTs, armoured cars and TK recce tanks and such-like. At most this accounts for around 770 weapons. Another 30 or so (with tripods) were allocated as AA wepons to armoured battalions and independent tank companies - so a grand total of 800 guns, give or take. With a generous 25% strategic reserve that gives us approx. 1000 guns. These I would have thought would be the obvious first choice for a German user - but the fly in the ointment is that this version apparently had a different German 'catalogue tag' ie 7,9 mm sMG 238(p).

So were the organisers in such dire straits that they impressed the utterly inaccurate and dangerous left-over unconverted guns, dragged out of some scrap-heap, or is it simply a case of incorrect nomenclature?

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AETIUS 1980
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Re: Polish maschine guns used by germans in WW2.

Post by AETIUS 1980 » 14 Oct 2021 13:31

I know this may be surprising, yet this notion of s.MG.25 is well renewed in the various Gliederungen of the 716.Inf.Div of December 16, 1942 (Abt Ia Nr 731/42) until that of February 3, 1943 (Abt 73/43), four months of repetition by the editor. Even if the error is human, I don't see it reproducing it as many times. On the other hand, the number is reduced from 20 to 17 before disappearing from the inventory. In return, the s.MG.14 appeared in August 1943 and were still present on May 1, 1944 (10 copies).Now it is true that the condition of the various materials classified as Bodenständige Waffen was in a sometimes pitiful state. The Gefreiter Franz GOCKEL of the 3./Gr.Rgt.726 mentioned that on the morning of June 6 on the Wn 62, his s.MG.30 (p) after a few bursts had the breech deteriorate making it definitively inoperative....The rest of his day in combat was then done with a Mauser rifle, perhaps also of Polish origin.....

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