Estonian A.T. M38 -- information request

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ArmchairSamurai
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Estonian A.T. M38 -- information request

Post by ArmchairSamurai » 09 Dec 2019 02:13

Hello all. I have recently discovered a rather obscure prototype(?) submachine gun manufactured by Estonia prior to the invasion by Russia in 1940. As far as I know, its simply called the Estonian A.T. M38 (with A.T. I believe standing for Arsenali Tallinn) but there is little more I have found on the weapon, except the following image on Pinterest. Does anyone know of other sources on this? I appreciate anything you may offer me. Much obliged.

Image
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Hisname
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Re: Estonian A.T. M38 -- information request

Post by Hisname » 11 Dec 2019 14:57

Most likely, this picture is all that remains.
Even in the museum, this particular drawing.
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JTV
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Re: Estonian A.T. M38 -- information request

Post by JTV » 11 Dec 2019 20:07

At least some, if not all of the Arsenal Tallinn submachine guns apparently ended up to Spanish Civil War:
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=150199

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peeved
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Re: Estonian A.T. M38 -- information request

Post by peeved » 11 Dec 2019 20:46

JTV wrote:
11 Dec 2019 20:07
At least some, if not all of the Arsenal Tallinn submachine guns apparently ended up to Spanish Civil War:
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=150199
Weren't those M23 though?

Markus

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Anonymus
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Re: Estonian A.T. M38 -- information request

Post by Anonymus » 16 May 2020 21:51

ArmchairSamurai wrote:
09 Dec 2019 02:13
Hello all. I have recently discovered a rather obscure prototype(?) submachine gun manufactured by Estonia prior to the invasion by Russia in 1940. As far as I know, its simply called the Estonian A.T. M38 (with A.T. I believe standing for Arsenali Tallinn) but there is little more I have found on the weapon, except the following image on Pinterest. Does anyone know of other sources on this? I appreciate anything you may offer me. Much obliged.

Image
This is a prototype, as far we know only two were made, it passed all the test in 1938. and production was scheduled to start in 1940. But Estonia was occupied and everything changed. prototype guns were either destroyed or taken by the Soviet authorities. The picture is taken from Estonian national archive ERA. 489.13.824 L18. Obviously this photo is copied numerous times,.

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Anonymus
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Re: Estonian A.T. M38 -- information request

Post by Anonymus » 16 May 2020 22:04

peeved wrote:
11 Dec 2019 20:46
JTV wrote:
11 Dec 2019 20:07
At least some, if not all of the Arsenal Tallinn submachine guns apparently ended up to Spanish Civil War:
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=150199
Weren't those M23 though?

Markus
Yes, the Arsenal Tallinn M23 Out of ca 660 produced, most of them were sold. About 30 was still in use by Estonian police and Border Guard in 1940.
The main reason why SMG-s was sold to Spain that the Estonian army adopted new standard service pistol FN Browning HP 35 and new standard pistol ammunition 9x19mm Para. Old service pistols and SMG-s used 9x20SR ammunition and rechambering old SMG-s to new bullet was considered too expensive. Instead, EDF bought in 1938. 660 Finnish SMG KP-31.

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Anonymus
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Re: Estonian A.T. M38 -- information request

Post by Anonymus » 16 May 2020 22:05

Hisname wrote:
11 Dec 2019 14:57
Most likely, this picture is all that remains.
Even in the museum, this particular drawing.
Vau my first weapons exhibition, oh how time flies by.

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audrew
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Re: Estonian A.T. M38 -- information request

Post by audrew » 04 May 2022 18:12


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Re: Estonian A.T. M38 -- information request

Post by audrew » 15 May 2022 06:22

Arsenal 1938 The 9x19 model was a particularly sophisticated and perfect type of new European models in the mid-1930s. It had a rare brake or semi-free lock with shotgun brakes on submachine guns. Among the well-known weapons, this was also the case with the Swiss SIG Neuhausen (MKMO). It is possible that the latter was followed by Arsenal. The winch was easy to change with the key and the precise target was adjustable sideways, the locking handle of the lock remained in place during shooting. The shooting speed was 700 shots per minute with the locking brake and 900 shots without the brake. The weapon had a lock stop, so the lock remained in the position after the tray was emptied, the light switch / safety latch enabled both single and row lights, the first of which was with a pre-towed trigger for shooting accuracy. A bayonet attachment and an iron mouthpiece to stabilize the weapon when shooting were also provided. The 1938 was precise and, thanks to its long bolt (350 mm), had a high initial ball speed (up to 415 m / s) and breakthrough power. However, despite the positive assessment, the order was not followed by Arsenal. The Finns had already been ordered a year ago, and the additional acquisition of submachine guns was scheduled to arrive in early October 1938.
The order for a new Arsenal submachine gun arose again in the spring of 1940. The National Defense Fund had another 160 thousand kroons for the purchase of submachine guns and pistols, and at the beginning of the new financial year 1940/41 (April 1940) the Armaments Department planned to order 300 Arsenal pistols from the Arsenal. Arsenal replied to the corresponding inquiry on April 11, 1940 that it is possible to manufacture 300 - 500 latest types of submachine guns at a price of 355 kroons each and with a term of 15 months. Production drawings for the new weapon were also available. Arsenal 1938 the ordering of the model was essentially decided by the beginning of the summer. But the summer events changed everything. In mid-August 1940, the order for submachine guns was canceled.
https://www.militaar.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=658
it is worth looking at the construction of Star Si or RU
posting.php?mode=edit&f=71&p=2408535
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