SS or WM Secret Belt Buckle Gun

Discussions on the small arms used by the Axis forces.
K. Jaeger
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SS or WM Secret Belt Buckle Gun

Post by K. Jaeger » 05 Feb 2008 19:44


yabint
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Post by yabint » 05 Feb 2008 22:47

Neither. It's not a standard military item; most probably a private purchase by an officer or party official.

Adler
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Post by Adler » 08 Feb 2008 03:32

Several years ago I spent some time on these interesting belt buckle pistols. I had the SS four-barrel specimen in .22 (photo attached) and tried to gather as much information as possible. I’ve seen photos of these devices in varying calibers, number of barrels, and branch of service. Some were profusely engraved; all had single digit serial numbers, and bore Army, Luftwaffe, SS or Political cap eagles on the front.
There has been debate about whether these were official Third Reich production items. However, most consider these interesting and exotic belt buckle pistols as having been hand crafted in postwar machine shops in Germany in the 50’s and 60’s.
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K. Jaeger
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Post by K. Jaeger » 08 Feb 2008 12:09

Thanks.

Than the document on the site could interest you.
http://schutzstaffel.yourbb.nl/viewtopi ... p=443#p443
Paraphrase: "The gun was brought in by a US soldier in the Army Registration Bureau." Doc. dated June 1946.

Kurt

Adler
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Post by Adler » 08 Feb 2008 17:03

Kurt:
Thank you for the interesting weapons site.
Here's a photo that was taken in Germany in the late 1980's of three other belt buckle pistols. Notice the different calibers and cover eagles. These
also had single digit serial numbers.
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K. Jaeger
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Post by K. Jaeger » 08 Feb 2008 20:34

I noticed the manf. stamp and ran it true google.

"LOUIS MARQUIS ELBERFELD"

The US C&R List contains these 2 models:

German, (Nazi) Belt Buckle Gun, .22 rimfire, marked "DRP Ausl Pat, Louis Marquis, W. Elberfeld."
German, (Nazi) Belt Buckle Gun, 7.65mm, marked "D.R.P. Angem."

http://www.shelfspace.com/~c-r-ffl/sec3.html

I think they were serious about it, the Germans... But what would be the sizes? It must be a lot bigger dan the usual buckles. Maybe stuff for officers only or special commandoes.

Note: it is the only weapon that you can fast trigger and ame - with handcoughs on. Another effect: what if the allied had to take in concern that every soldier, even unarmed and half dead, still could have firepower?

Kurt

Adler
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Post by Adler » 08 Feb 2008 22:05

You are correct...Louis Marquis, W. Elberfeld received a four-page patent in 1935 for a belt buckle pistol. As you can see from the two-pages below, this design is totally different from those we know today.
It's hard to believe that these would not be noticed on someone's belt...they
are much wider and thicker than the standard belt buckle. It's hard to imagine that these were even considered for production and issue.
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amelinas
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Post by amelinas » 10 Feb 2008 22:18

I have this Belt Buckle Pistol (with a special permission) in my collection. Maybe I've the plan and inscribe the weapon to an auctionhouse here at the end of the year. I am wondering if any of the experts here can tell me something about its market value?
Thanks in advance!

Image
Image

Adler
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Post by Adler » 10 Feb 2008 23:21

Since these belt buckle pistols are extremely specialized, without authoritative references or past sales records, it would be very difficult to come up with a value. Does your unit have any stampings or other markings? I assume it is .22 caliber. The unit I posted above with the SS eagle on the front appears to be very similar to yours.
I would suggest that you discuss this with several good auction houses in Germany, such as HERMANN HISTORICA in Munich, to get their opinions.
These are very interesting items, but no-one really knows their value.
But, please let us know what is stamped on your buckle pistol...and what you find out from some expert German auction houses. Good luck!

K. Jaeger
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Post by K. Jaeger » 11 Feb 2008 22:58

Interesting.

Thanks, gents, for sharing!

What still puzzles me, is that several photos of such weapons are avalable, and that we have some documents (Schutzstaffel site and Adler's scans) proving that the object is not some post-WW phantasy -but that photos of Germans carrying or using, or demonstrating them, are not seen until now. Neither have I read Germans talking about it. I'm not saying that those do not exist. Still there's something... enigmatic about the whole subject. Don't you agree?

lukasschmidt
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Re:

Post by lukasschmidt » 05 Sep 2010 23:25

Hi Adler,
Belt Buckle Pistol, Koppelschlosspistole.
Sorry, but the Pistol was made only with Cal9mm Para, and one Bullet.
Another Models was in the 50´to 60´ produced by Opel in Rüsselsheim, also Fake.

mfg
Dieter

Adler
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Re: SS or WM Secret Belt Buckle Gun

Post by Adler » 06 Sep 2010 04:49

Here's the device currently being offered at auction..and look at the estimated price! These are generally considered to be fantasy pieces.

http://phoenixinvestmentarms.com/1211SSBelt.htm

John C.
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Re: SS or WM Secret Belt Buckle Gun

Post by John C. » 28 Aug 2013 10:36

Hello, I have one of those belt buckles and I would like to know more about their history. I will wish to sell but can you tell me what price and where to go.
Thank you in advance

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