Ofenrohr/Panzerschreck-name change

Discussions on the small arms used by the Axis forces.
Meczyk
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Ofenrohr/Panzerschreck-name change

Post by Meczyk » 10 May 2008 18:25

Hi!

I always thought that the basic difference between those 2 weapons was the shield, that little "U" shape thing under the barrel and improved sights. But some time ago I've read D 1864/5 8,8 cm R Pz B 54 mit 8,8 cm R Pz B Gr 4322 Schutzschild, Schutzbügel, verstellbares Korn mit Abdeckblech. Erganzunen zur D 1864/2 Vom 24.2.44. This manual explains how those things can be fitted to a Ofenrohr. So, if somebody would put all those things to an Ofenrohr, it would be called Panzerschreck? What were the differences between those weapons?

I know that my question may sound a little bit strange, or like those made by 2 year old children, but I saw a lot pics with 8.8 cm launchers with/without many parts signed (the pic, not the weapon itself) Ofenrohr or Panzerschreck, and I am just very much confuzed :? Help...

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Pax Melmacia
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Re: Ofenrohr/Panzerschreck-name change

Post by Pax Melmacia » 12 May 2008 08:18

As far as I can tell, 'Panzerschreck' (Tank Terror) was the name originally given the Raketenpanzerbüchse (RPzB) for convenience and morale purposes. However, the soldiers, as soldiers the world over are wont to do, later gave it the humorous nickname of 'Ofenrohr' (stovepipe).

Meczyk
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Re: Ofenrohr/Panzerschreck-name change

Post by Meczyk » 12 May 2008 11:35

That is not correct, Ofenrohr was an official name,
Merkblatt 77/2

8,8 cm R-Panzerbüchse 54 (Ofenrohr)

Richtlinien für Ausbildung und Einsatz
http://www.superborg.de/hmb060.htm

Meczyk
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Re: Ofenrohr/Panzerschreck-name change

Post by Meczyk » 24 May 2008 15:28

So , no body knows the answer?

I've found something else

http://www.fronta.cz/dotaz/princip-pancerove-pesti

Image
Is that shield wrongly installed?

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Grzesio
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Re: Ofenrohr/Panzerschreck-name change

Post by Grzesio » 29 May 2008 09:25

Yes, Ofenrohr was an official name already in the prototype phase.
But I think the problem is a little bit more complex, as we should have FOUR designations in mind - 8,8 cm RPzB 43, 8,8 cm RPzB 54, Ofenrohr and Panzerschreck. The RPzB 43 is called Ofenrohr most commonly, while the RPzB 54 - Panzerschreck, but it's not neccessarily the truth as we can see from the Merkblatt 77/2.
As far as I'm concerned there were no other differences between 'factory' RPzB 43 and 54 other than the shield, front and rear sights and the buffer under the muzzle. This way, applying all these devices to the 43 should turn it into 54.
BUT - a Soviet manual on German AT weapons covers THREE sights configurations - i.e.: 1.) with a fixed front sight and a single notch; 2.) with an adjustable front sight and a single notch; 3.) with an adjustable front sight and five notches.
The question is if this second variant was a factory version (RPzB 43? RPzB 54?) or just a result of field mods?

By the way - do you probably know what was the difference between the RPzB 54/1 and RPzB 54 sights? Almost all publications describe the 54/1 sight as 'improved' - but I'd love to know in what way?

The shield in the picture is correctly installed - it's apparent from photographs, that this way of mounting the shield (i.e. horizontally and backwards) was applied when shooting from a trench, to allow lower position of the muzzle above the ground. I believe it was an intended feature of the shield (as the aiming window was in the correct position in both shield positions) and was most probably covered by some official regulations.

Regards

Grzesio

Meczyk
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Re: Ofenrohr/Panzerschreck-name change

Post by Meczyk » 29 May 2008 10:49

I saw the front page of that manual, and there is clearly written "Ofenrohr" on it, so the description "most commonly" wouldn't be accurate, because that name was "in the book".

About the sights

-first Ofenrohrs had, as You said, the basic front and rear sights
-D 1864/5 includes the description of modified front sight
-modified rear sight with 5 notches was introduced 7.6. 1944. (at least according to Waffen Revue)



I've found one thing on that page, that I think is very curious: D 1864/6 "Panzerschreck 8,8 cm R PzB 54 und R PzB 54/1 mit 8,8 cm R PzB Gr. 4322 und 8,8 cm R PzB Gr. 4992". Is it possible, that the name "panzerschreck" was introduced by just a little weapon upgrade manual, not a weapons manual? Then we would have basic Ofenrohr, Ofenrohr with shield and front sight, then the new rocket comes in and the name changes from Ofenrohr to Panzerschreck, and then we have Panzerschreck with modified rear sight, and then we have RPzB 54/1, which maybe had all those modifications (adjustable front sight and 5 notches rear sight) installed in factories,so that's why all those publication menstion that the sights were "improved".

Best Regards

Meczyk

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Grzesio
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Re: Ofenrohr/Panzerschreck-name change

Post by Grzesio » 29 May 2008 11:46

Wow, it all seems to be more and more complicated with every subsequent step...

First of all - when designation RPzB 54 appeared for the first time?
It's rather commonly ;) written - at least in my understanding - that the RPzB 54 was the shielded version with adjustable sights w/ five notches, put into production in mid July 1944. BUT - this designation is obviously older, as it's included in the Merkbaltt 77/2 (dated 1943) as well as D 1864/2 (1943 according to http://www.superborg.de/d1150.htm ). Then, this Lidové noviny article mentioning the Panzerschreck is dated 7 July 1944 - what seems to suggest that both the 8,8 cm RPzB 54 and the Panzerschreck are older than (I) previously thought.

I don't believe the name Panzerschreck was introduced by the D 1864/6. It appears in the D 1864/1 on 6 July 1944, while the D 1864/6 covers the RPzBGr 4992 rocket and the 8,8 cm RPzB 54/1 launcher - the latter was built in December 1944 as far as I know, so this manual should be dated for the very end of 1944.

So, do we know ANY dated service manuals including the names 8,8 cm RPzB 43 and/or Ofenrohr?

Regards

Grzesio

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tigre
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Re: Ofenrohr/Panzerschreck-name change

Post by tigre » 15 Mar 2020 03:08

Hello to all :D; a query......................................

Close combat (Nahkampf) in the hedges of Normandy 1944!

Source: https://www.sammlermarkt-nord.net/shop/ ... 16928.html
http://militiahungarorum.roncskutatas.c ... _rv_k.html

Cheers. Raúl M 8-).
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