Weapons of the partisans?
- FlyingStukas
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Re: Weapons of the partisans?
Hey there Mujo and everyone,
A pretty good thread so far! Let me comment a bit more on the Yugoslav People Liberation's Army (NOVJ), or the Yugoslav Partisans. The start of the war, very well as a good portion of it, the Partisans used obsolete WW1 & pre-WW2 era weaponry. These consisted of the M24 Mauser, Austro-Hungarian MG08 Schwarzlose and other various WW1 & local small arms. During the Unternehmen 25 (Invasion of Yugoslavia), the Germans frequently piled up Yugoslav rifles and/or snapped them in half. This was not only a showcase of the victor vs the loser, but also a propaganda-initiated act to make fun of the "obsolete" weapons of the Royal Yugoslav Army.
Throughout the course of the war, the Partisans targeted Croatian & German outposts, often stealing various amounts of carbines, machine guns and most importantly, the ammunition for it (a good deal of such raids can be found in the book Oružništvo Nezavisne Države Hrvatske by author Davor Kovačić, he mentions quite a few of these raids, their purposes and the loot taken on Croatian Gendarmerie outposts on the territory of NDH). The small arms used by German troops never drastically changed, thus the Partisans took advantage of the looted MP-40's, K98s, MG42s, even the more uncommon Czech-made ZB vz. 26 MG's and the likes of it. The fall of Italy in 1943 marked a huge race between the Partisans and remaining Axis forces to take advantage of left-behind Italian equipment. Such raids by both the Germans and Partisans were frequent from the Herzegovina region all the way to the south in Dubrovnik and the Croatian islands. Furthermore, the Partisans now had the control of a large amount of Carcano's, Beretta's etc.
A pretty good thread so far! Let me comment a bit more on the Yugoslav People Liberation's Army (NOVJ), or the Yugoslav Partisans. The start of the war, very well as a good portion of it, the Partisans used obsolete WW1 & pre-WW2 era weaponry. These consisted of the M24 Mauser, Austro-Hungarian MG08 Schwarzlose and other various WW1 & local small arms. During the Unternehmen 25 (Invasion of Yugoslavia), the Germans frequently piled up Yugoslav rifles and/or snapped them in half. This was not only a showcase of the victor vs the loser, but also a propaganda-initiated act to make fun of the "obsolete" weapons of the Royal Yugoslav Army.
Throughout the course of the war, the Partisans targeted Croatian & German outposts, often stealing various amounts of carbines, machine guns and most importantly, the ammunition for it (a good deal of such raids can be found in the book Oružništvo Nezavisne Države Hrvatske by author Davor Kovačić, he mentions quite a few of these raids, their purposes and the loot taken on Croatian Gendarmerie outposts on the territory of NDH). The small arms used by German troops never drastically changed, thus the Partisans took advantage of the looted MP-40's, K98s, MG42s, even the more uncommon Czech-made ZB vz. 26 MG's and the likes of it. The fall of Italy in 1943 marked a huge race between the Partisans and remaining Axis forces to take advantage of left-behind Italian equipment. Such raids by both the Germans and Partisans were frequent from the Herzegovina region all the way to the south in Dubrovnik and the Croatian islands. Furthermore, the Partisans now had the control of a large amount of Carcano's, Beretta's etc.
- FlyingStukas
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Re: Weapons of the partisans?
Italian Carcano and canteen. Oh, and a Stuart tank
- FlyingStukas
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Re: Weapons of the partisans?
Concept art - ambush with a Schwarzlose
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- Partisan ambush with a WW1 Schwarzlose HMG Concept Art.jpg (22.79 KiB) Viewed 1534 times
- FlyingStukas
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Re: Weapons of the partisans?
And naturally, German-looted equipment. Here with a MG-34
Hope the photos helped a bit
Hope the photos helped a bit
Re: Weapons of the partisans?
Destroying the enemy's weapons is something you do when you're moving quickly and don't want to take a chance of them being retrieved and used against you (again). More often than not, the Germans used a system of beutewaffen recovery and redeployment that incorporated their Ordnance staff, depots and mobile armorer teams.FlyingStukas wrote: ↑16 Jun 2020, 15:34During the Unternehmen 25 (Invasion of Yugoslavia), the Germans frequently piled up Yugoslav rifles and/or snapped them in half. This was not only a showcase of the victor vs the loser, but also a propaganda-initiated act to make fun of the "obsolete" weapons of the Royal Yugoslav Army.
If surviving examples are any indication, the idea that the Germans made an effort to evoke symbolism and ridicule Yugoslav rifles, especially through propaganda, is without foundation. I have no less than six examples of pre-war Yugoslav Model 1924 rifles in my collection that are German marked and/or modified. They were processed through depots and by armorers, who then returned them to service in the Wehrmacht. Not long after the invasion of the USSR, Germany suffered a sort of 'rifle crisis' due to insufficient production not being able to keep pace with battlefield losses and attrition. Standard German rifles were needed by combat troops, and so second and third tier troops, like those guarding installations, being assigned to occupation duty and other relatively uncontested tasks were armed with captured rifles from all over Europe. This included Yugoslav rifles, which enjoyed a greater commonality of interchangeable parts and the same chambering (7.92X57) as the standard German K98k. These rifles were used through the remainder of the war, and likely saw combat towards the point of their recovery by Allied troops, as the 'rear' areas gradually became the front itself.
He who lives by the sword, should train with it frequently.
Re: Weapons of the partisans?
Totally agree with you.Poot wrote: ↑16 Jun 2020, 16:55
Destroying the enemy's weapons is something you do when you're moving quickly and don't want to take a chance of them being retrieved and used against you (again). More often than not, the Germans used a system of beutewaffen recovery and redeployment that incorporated their Ordnance staff, depots and mobile armorer teams.
If surviving examples are any indication, the idea that the Germans made an effort to evoke symbolism and ridicule Yugoslav rifles, especially through propaganda, is without foundation.......... Standard German rifles were needed by combat troops, and so second and third tier troops, like those guarding installations, being assigned to occupation duty and other relatively uncontested tasks were armed with captured rifles from all over Europe. This included Yugoslav rifles, which enjoyed a greater commonality of interchangeable parts and the same chambering (7.92X57) as the standard German K98k. These rifles were used through the remainder of the war, and likely saw combat towards the point of their recovery by Allied troops, as the 'rear' areas gradually became the front itself.
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Re: Weapons of the partisans?
M3A3 version
"There are two kinds of people who are staying on this beach: those who are dead and those who are going to die. Now let’s get the hell out of here".
Col. George Taylor, 16th Infantry Regiment, Omaha Beach
Col. George Taylor, 16th Infantry Regiment, Omaha Beach
Re: Weapons of the partisans?
Hisname,
Nice photos. Are they Chetniks? Do I have your permission to use them on another forum?
Thanks,
Pat
Nice photos. Are they Chetniks? Do I have your permission to use them on another forum?
Thanks,
Pat
He who lives by the sword, should train with it frequently.
Re: Weapons of the partisans?
Excellent, thank you-
Pat
Pat
He who lives by the sword, should train with it frequently.
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Re: Weapons of the partisans?
There are people on Wiki now claiming that Yugoslav/Italian partisans had STG 44s though the only information I could find is that they used them after the war at least for the Yugoslavs.
Re: Weapons of the partisans?
With regard to partisans in the area of north central Ukraine/former east Poland prior to Soviet partisan consolidation and oversight (pre Dec. '42 or so) - the partisan stories I've encountered talk about opportunistic attacks of foresters and remote rural police posts to obtain weapons. In both cases, as I remember, they seemed most often to mention old and poorly maintained weapons and very little ammo. I would surmise that in the case of foresters, they likely had whatever hunting rifle was commercially available at the time, perhaps also a revolver or even a shotgun. Police posts on the other hand, I could imagine would have been issued with military style arms.