Erma Vollmer SMG

David Lehmann · Post by **David Lehmann** » 17 May 2003 18:22

Yes I am sure about M1921 before 1940 (and 1928 after 1940 sure but before not totally) as well as Suomi SMGs.... both in small number that's sure ... If a found a pic or something I will send it

For the Suomi I don't know where they are from ...

David

varjag · Post by **varjag** » 18 May 2003 13:17

Panzermeyer wrote:Event some Thompson M1921 and M1928 were used by the French Army in 1940 ... As far as I know the last time the MAS38 was used is during the Indochina ... than came the famous MAT49 and it is this one that you have probably seen on TV.

No Panzermeyer - I have to update you there....it's hard to remember dates/years but certainly after 1986 - and there were MAS 38's in the hands of gendarms - shown on TV here. I know what hardware I look at and I was amazed myself - hence my question. And NO - it was not in the Pacific - it was in metropolitan France - whatever upheaval, I have forgotten. Perhaps better check your records of armourie gendarmerie?? As an aside question - the French 7,65 Longue cartridge for them - can you still buy this cartridge in France if you have a license for the gun to fire it? Rgds, Varjag

David Lehmann · Post by **David Lehmann** » 18 May 2003 14:00

Hi Varjag,

Well I am amazed too ... I will try to find info about it in several books and tell you about what I found.
The MAS38 was only produced in small numbers at the beginning of WWII, then the French Army used much US weapons and in 1949 the MAT49 were issued. At the beginning of the Indochina war MAS38 were used but even MP40 had been issued.
Gendarmerie is part of the French Army, are you absolutely sure they were gendarmes and not policemen from the CRS (compagnie régionale de sécurité) for example ?
The Gendarmerie have the classical French Army's small arms.
Nowadays they have the MAS G1 (Beretta 92F), the FAMAS and still several MAT49 ... They also still use several MAC50 pistol. In fact the MAC50 is better than the MASG1 because it is not a real Beretta 92F but a model locally made and they try to make economies on several pieces and in fact it is too delicate for a service handgun ... now they have to return to factory to improve them ... stupid ...
French Police long used some MAB model D pistol in 7.65x22 mm (called 7.65 mm Longue) but in the army at the beginning the SACM 1935S and 1935A as well as the MAS38 used this cartridge. Nowadays it is not really used anymore I think. The French Army rapidly used MAT49 SMGs as well as MAC50 and MAB P15 pistols (all in 9x19 mm).
I really don't know where the MAS38 you have seen come from

) But sure I believe you, that's not the question.
Is the 7.65 mm Longue still available ? ... mmmm I don't think it is anymore produced ... but several Police handguns used them so perhaps ... I will ask my closest armory ... I am not sure it is still fabricated for the civilian market. About the 7.65 mm Browning (7.65x17 mm or .32ACP) yes I am sure you still can buy it but for the 7.65 Longue I don't know. Personnaly I am member of the French shooter association and have several weapons in .22LR, .357 magnum and .45ACP but I will ask for the availability of the 7.65 mm Longue.
The MAS 38 you've seen are in my opinion some "surplus" weapons issued occasionnaly, not really officially in use but still kept with the existing ammunitions stocks I think.
I will try to learn more about it and I will tell you later ... really sorry not to have more accurate infos in fact.

regards,

David

varjag · Post by **varjag** » 19 May 2003 11:57

Panzermeyer - thanks very much for your informative and exhaustive reply. I may be a bit confused about what I called gendarmerie - the guys who carried the MAS 38's were some kind of 'riot police' - and may well have been CRS though I did not understand that. I think you are entirely right about some 'surplus stores' being drawn on from time to time and that's where you may (yet?) find antiques like the MAS38 and old stocks of ammo. I'll look forward to hearing what the opinions are ' down at your shooting club' about getting 7,65mm Longue ammo today. Since this is strictly outside the subject - why don't you send me a Private Message. Thanks and regards, Varjag

audrew · Post by **audrew** » 30 Jun 2022 09:17

Norge Vollmer smg 1934 https://digitaltmuseum.no/021017408777/ ... a9N7jy0PSg
The Norwegian Police Service Assault Group (Statspolitiet) bought 8 VMP1930 submachine guns in 1932
Magnar Skaret (2017). Politiets Våpen. Norsk Politihistorisk Selskap. p.109-110. ISBN 978-82-998108-4-5.

audrew · Post by **audrew** » 30 Jun 2022 09:41

Bulgarian vollmer https://vzro-vartop.blogspot.com/p/blog-page_16.html
At that time, submachine guns were still a novelty and a rarity. In the late 1920s, VMRO purchased from Germany certain quantities of the Vollmer submachine gun, VMP-28 (photo Vollmer Maschinenpistole model 1926 V.P.G or V.P.G.a), which had just come on the market.

audrew · Post by **audrew** » 30 Jun 2022 10:11

Soviet Vollmer smg
https://memo-randum.net/katalog/interes ... ans(ru|en)
The history of the creation, testing and production of the first Soviet Tokarev submachine gun chambered for Nagan (model 1927) (PPT-27). The choice of a single pistol cartridge for self-loading pistols and submachine guns, Mikhailov S.V. (St. Petersburg)

JoeW · Post by **JoeW** » 17 Jul 2022 14:58

Fascinating and informative posts and images. Thank you.

audrew · Post by **audrew** » 19 Mar 2023 11:17

Norge Vollmer V.P.(?) sn.28 https://nphs.no/vapen-m-v/
unknown Vollmer V.P.K sn.628 https://www.rockislandauction.com/detai ... -iiinfa-cr
forgotten weapons Vollmer V.M.P sn.810 https://www.forgottenweapons.com/smg-wi ... -vmp-1930/, https://www.forgottenweapons.com/vmp-19 ... opod-help/

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