STG-44 amongst hungarians

Discussions on the small arms used by the Axis forces.
Setsurinvich
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STG-44 amongst hungarians

Post by Setsurinvich » 12 May 2021 06:25

On the STG-44 wiki pages it mentions a book in hungarian claiming the Hungarians had used the STG-44 in WW2 but other sources claimed that the Hungarians only used STG-44s after WW2 when they recieved surplus military aid from the Soviets. Does anyone have any sources that can confirm with assertion is right?


The book from wikipedia is "A Magyar Királyi Honvéd Ludovika Akadémia és a Testvérintézetek Összefoglalt Története (1830–1945)"

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Christian Ankerstjerne
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Re: STG-44 amongst hungarians

Post by Christian Ankerstjerne » 13 May 2021 21:31

The production reports for the MP 43 Ausführung B/MP 44/Sturmgewehr 44 specify the following foreign exports:
1943-09: 0
1943-10: 0
1943-11: 0
1943-12: ? (324 for 'Sales and other uses', which includes exports, trials, deliveries to Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine, etc.)
1944-01: 0
1944-02: 0
1944-03: 0
1944-04: 0
1944-05: 0
1944-06: 0
1944-07: 2
1944-08: 0
1944-09: 15
1944-10: 0
1944-11: 0
1944-12: ? (1550 for 'Sales and other uses', which includes exports, trials, deliveries to Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine, etc.)
1945-01: ? (695 for 'Sales and other uses', which includes exports, trials, deliveries to Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine, etc.)
1945-02: 0

These are the numbers I have access to. The 1550 in December 1944 and 695 in January 1945 could include foreign exports, but could also be other deliveries (the Luftwaffe received a few thousand St G 44 over the months). There is of course also the option that Hungary had acquired some St G 44 through alternative channels.

Setsurinvich
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Re: STG-44 amongst hungarians

Post by Setsurinvich » 14 May 2021 06:49

If that few STG 44s were made for export its hard to see how the Hungarians could get enough for use

akdavis
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Re: STG-44 amongst hungarians

Post by akdavis » 14 May 2021 14:10

On August 5, 1944, 12.ung.Res.Div. reported 205 MP44 on hand:
T311 R219 0703.jpg
source: T311 R219
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Setsurinvich
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Re: STG-44 amongst hungarians

Post by Setsurinvich » 15 May 2021 07:30

is that a hungarian army division? why is the report in german?

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Christian Ankerstjerne
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Re: STG-44 amongst hungarians

Post by Christian Ankerstjerne » 15 May 2021 14:48

Setsurinvich wrote:
15 May 2021 07:30
is that a hungarian army division? why is the report in german?
There are several reports made for the German High Command on the strength of their allies. Presumably, there were more Hungarian officers speaking German than there were German officers speaking Hungarian.

Setsurinvich
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Re: STG-44 amongst hungarians

Post by Setsurinvich » 15 May 2021 19:27

so are the hungarians the only ones reported to have STG-44s? At anyrate its not very many and probably wasnt seriously used

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stg 44
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Re: STG-44 amongst hungarians

Post by stg 44 » 06 Aug 2021 00:22

The only ones I've heard of were for Hungarian SS units that were being formed in 1944-45 and were used as independent regiments or battalions in some cases.

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Poot
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Re: STG-44 amongst hungarians

Post by Poot » 06 Aug 2021 06:43

I can't imagine they were attached to larger Hungarian Honved commands, considering the logistical issue of having to supply a caliber (7,92X33) that was used by nothing else at that point, and certainly nothing at all in the Hungarian array of small arms.

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Peter89
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Re: STG-44 amongst hungarians

Post by Peter89 » 11 Aug 2021 09:50

Setsurinvich wrote:
15 May 2021 07:30
is that a hungarian army division? why is the report in german?
The 12. Tartalék Hadosztály (Hungarian) was subordinated to the 9. Armee (German) at the time of the report (5th August 1944).
Christian Ankerstjerne wrote:
15 May 2021 14:48
Presumably, there were more Hungarian officers speaking German than there were German officers speaking Hungarian.
In fact all of them, because they (the Hungarian generals) have studied in the K.u.K. military academy (even those who were sent to the Hungarian army), and read most of the military literature in German.
Setsurinvich wrote:
15 May 2021 19:27
so are the hungarians the only ones reported to have STG-44s? At anyrate its not very many and probably wasnt seriously used
It is very interesting indeed, because the commander of the 9. Armee (Nikolaus von Vormann) spent the august of 1944 with accusing the Hungarians to work together with the Warsaw uprising (which they actually did).
stg 44 wrote:
06 Aug 2021 00:22
The only ones I've heard of were for Hungarian SS units that were being formed in 1944-45 and were used as independent regiments or battalions in some cases.
Those Hungarian SS units were mostly formed from ethnic Germans from Hungary. By that point in the war, it was usually about subdivision-sized Kampfgruppen, which depleted in a few actions, and were under German command.

One of my ancestors told me a story many times over... the German officer shouted something like "Second platoon, ready your weapons and flank the soviet position!" and they just stood there, waiting... the guy started to yell with them. Tensions rose and then finally an older soldier came and translated to the Hungarian Germans. They still just looked upon each other, didn't know what to do... the German officer threatened to shoot them... the old soldier translated again with the Hungarian Germans at gunpoint... then the NCO of the Hungarian Germans asked back shakily: "Herr Oberleutnant... what does flanking mean?"
“And while I am talking to you, mothers and fathers, I give you one more assurance. I have said this before, but I shall say it again, and again and again. Your boys are not going to be sent into any foreign wars." - FDR, October 1940

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