Spanish sub machine guns in German service?

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nuyt
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Spanish sub machine guns in German service?

#1

Post by nuyt » 19 May 2021, 22:59

Recently discovered footage of the Rotterdam resistance reveal that in 1945 at the surrender of the German troops, a "Spanish model automatic carbine" was captured from the surrendering troops. "Automatic carbine" could in this case mean a sub machine gun. It got me thinking on an Erma as these were produced in Spain during the WW2, but were these in service with the German occupying forces?

What weapon could this have been? And did Spanish industries deliver weapons to the Germans during WW2? I thought it was the other way round, but you never know. Weapons could have easily reached France.

That got me thinking: it could have been a weapon from the Vichy forces, taken over by the Germans?

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Re: Spanish sub machine guns in German service?

#2

Post by Orwell1984 » 20 May 2021, 02:44

Another possibility for a French source is one of the weapons surrendered by Republican soldiers after fleeing to France.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erma_EMP
In the Spring of 1939, a large number of defeated Spanish Republicans fled to France, where they were disarmed. Some 3,250 EMPs formerly in the possession of these fighters ended up in a French warehouse at Clermont-Ferrand. The EMPs were usually referred to as the "Erma–Vollmer" in French documents. The French tested the weapons and decided to adopt them for their own service. A provisional manual was printed in French as Provisoire sur le pistolet-mitrailleur Erma – Vollmer de 9mm, issued on December 26, 1939 and updated on January 6, 1940. However, the French had obtained only some 1,540 suitable magazines for these guns, so only 700-800 EMPs were actually distributed to the French forces, mostly to the Mobile Gendarmerie. After the Germans conquered France, some EMPs armed the Legion of French Volunteers Against Bolshevism, which eventually became part of the SS Charlemagne division. This division was practically destroyed in February 1945 in Eastern Prussia, now part of Poland. Numerous EMPs have been found in the last-stand battlefields of the SS Charlemagne division; most of these guns lack any German military stamps or marks.[6] The EMPs which arrived in German hands via the French route were given the (Fremdgerät) designation 740(f)
Also https://www.mp40.nl/index.php?page=emp


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Re: Spanish sub machine guns in German service?

#3

Post by nuyt » 20 May 2021, 08:28

Thanks! Yep, but these were made in Germany I believe, so we would still not be sure if these weapons have been identifiable by a Dutch resistance man as "Spanish model"

I also meanwhile read about the Star 35, that was offered to Germany in 1941 (but probably not sold).

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Re: Spanish sub machine guns in German service?

#4

Post by nuyt » 20 May 2021, 16:25

It's highly likely that this weapon had come from Spain via France. Other former French weaponry ended up in the Netherlands in 1945, like a CDM armoured car. The Charlemagne SS Division had been all but wiped out by May 45 and these had unmarked Ermas.
It's possible there were more small batches of the Ermas built in Coruna from 1941 ending up in German hands. After all, the Spanish sent volunteers themselves as well.

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Re: Spanish sub machine guns in German service?

#5

Post by nuyt » 23 May 2021, 21:38

Interesting to know that the Arsenal of La Coruña (Fábrica de Armas de la Coruña) during the war not only produced the Erma from 1941, but also Mauser carbines from 1943 and a modified Hotchkiss lmg...
https://historiadelasarmasdefuego.blogs ... de-la.html
I wonder if they did some export to Vichy France...?

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