MP 40 ?

[Hans1906]

The father of my school friend T. often talked about shooting down an American low-flying aircraft with a German submachine gun.

He always remembered the german "Maschinenpistole 40" https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maschinenpistole_40
Was something like that possible, I've always doubted it, how do you think about it today ?

The alleged shooting down is said to have happened in northern Hessen in 1945, as far as I know, the man received an award for it.

I would be interested in your answers...


Hans

[CogCalgary]

How low?Lucky shot?Believe this soldier is holding one,rather short barrel.

[Hans1906]

Hi CogCalgary,

Unfortunately, I do not know the details, the award for this shooting down with hand weapons can only have been this German award:

Tieffliegervernichtungsabzeichen https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiefflieg ... sabzeichen

“The special badge is awarded to soldiers who shot down an enemy low-flying aircraft with small arms (rifle, submachine gun, machine gun caliber 12 mm and smaller) during this war. For each aircraft shot down, a special badge is awarded to the decisively involved individual shooter. The sleeve stripe is worn on the right upper arm of the field blouse. Wear a gold badge in place of five kills...”

The shooting down of the Allied low-flying aircraft is said to have happened in the region of northern Hesse, where and when exactly, I unfortunately do not know.
My school friend's father was still too young in 1945, the memories were confusing, but such shootings with small arms definitely happened, without a doubt.


Hans
P.S. The picture of the badge in the "Lexikon der Wehrmacht" is not correct, I personally have never come across an original example, probably no awards at all..?

[Biber]

How low?Lucky shot?Believe this soldier is holding one,rather short barrel.

At first blush it looks more like it could be a Sten in the photo. I can imagine it wasn't unheard of to use captured weapons.

[Hans1906]

For 99,9 % a british captured "Sten", what else ?

Stories and memories from German veterans shouldn't be taken too seriously, and could anyone actually shoot down an enemy low-flying aircraft with a German MP?

None of us were present, a lot was possible, such memories don't just fall from a sky, there is a small grain of truth behind most memories.
Not even children think of something like that, perhaps as contemporary witnesses.

Memories are transfigured, especially in the memories of the children of that time.
My mother, born in 1935, kept telling me about low-flying plane attacks that she experienced as a ten-year-old girl in northern Germany.
But my mother wasn't there, Ingrid and her mother fled from the Sudetenland.
Transfigured memories, who of us can still remember what happened at that age, I can't...

I don't remember anything from my childhood years, the many photo albums are alien to me, the earliest memory is my grandfather's funeral in 1967.
Everything before that is like a black hole, completely gone.
I can only begin to understand what happened from old photo albums, the boy in the albums wasn't me, everything seems to have been erased.


Hans

[CogCalgary]

No weapons expert here.Only know that the photo was taken in the Balkans.

[CogCalgary]

I was not aware that German forces sometimes used foreign small arms.

[Poot]

I was not aware that German forces sometimes used foreign small arms.

With great and widespread frequency.

[Hans1906]

Every handgun available was still in use on the German side in 1945.

The Deutsche Volkssturm was armed with weapons even from before 1900, often with just a handful of ammunition, but that would be a different topic altogether...

There is a report of a German soldier, who shot down a enemy low-flying aircraft with a salvo from his weapon using an "assault rifle".
Probably with a German "Sturmgewehr 44".

Very likely, 30 rounds from a fully automatic weapon into a low-flying plane should have been enough to bring such a plane down.
Especially when a bullet hit the pilot.

Do you remember the pictures of the North Vietnamese and the VC, firing and shooting down American planes from a sky in groups with simple handguns.
They used simple weapon technology against high technology, and in the end, these little people in "black pyjamas" made this war a winner...


Hans

[CogCalgary]

This is true Hans,I have seen footage of civilians being trained to try to hit the pilot.I assume the aircraft you heard the story about flew low to strafe..

[Hans1906]

Hi CogCalgary,

I didn't "hear" that anywhere, those were memories , from a father, and also from a son.
In the course of the many years, a lot has certainly been glorified or forgotten, I can't judge that.

I am familiar with both German handguns, the MP 40 and the Sturmgewehr 44, and have fired both weapons very often in earlier years.
Not to be underestimated as line fire weapons, even in a relatively small caliber.
These were German weapons of war, whose effectiveness was very often underestimated.

It wasn't a privilege to shoot with these guns, it was pure curiosity, something like that is no longer possible in Germany today.
Not even in an American R&G Club, those years are over.


Hans

[CogCalgary]

Hi CogCalgary,

I didn't "hear" that anywhere, those were memories , from a father, and also from a son.
In the course of the many years, a lot has certainly been glorified or forgotten, I can't judge that.

I am familiar with both German handguns, the MP 40 and the Sturmgewehr 44, and have fired both weapons very often in earlier years.
Not to be underestimated as line fire weapons, even in a relatively small caliber.
These were German weapons of war, whose effectiveness was very often underestimated.

It wasn't a privilege to shoot with these guns, it was pure curiosity, something like that is no longer possible in Germany today.
Not even in an American R&G Club, those years are over.


Hans

My apologies for the imprecise reference.Any info on which part of the plane he managed to hit or how far the plane continued to stay aloft?

[von thoma]

But this is not a German Fallschirmjäger, he looks like an Italian paratrooper, then the weapon would be a Beretta submachine gun.
Of course the gun has a stock.

[CogCalgary]

But this is not a German Fallschirmjäger, he looks like an Italian paratrooper, then the weapon would be a Beretta submachine gun.
Of course the gun has a stock.

He is an Italian.He was an Italian paratrooper but here he is in a German unit.Early 44.
Getting back on topic,I thought these aircraft had some armor,how vulnerable was a low flying Allied aircraft?

[LineDoggie]

Do you remember the pictures of the North Vietnamese and the VC, firing and shooting down American planes from a sky in groups with simple handguns.
They used simple weapon technology against high technology, and in the end, these little people in "black pyjamas" made this war a winner...


Hans

Source of claim?