Have this strange weapon been used in combat?

Discussions on the small arms used by the Axis forces.
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Jeremy Chan
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#16

Post by Jeremy Chan » 11 Sep 2003, 09:54

The SKS was merely an interim weapon, no more. Kalashnikov didn't base his whole design on the SKS! Only the gas operation, maybe. But not the assault rifle concept.

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#17

Post by Jeremy Chan » 11 Sep 2003, 09:59

The SKS was merely an interim weapon, no more. Kalashnikov didn't base his whole design on the SKS! Only the gas operation, maybe. But not the assault rifle concept. He also shared the SKS's short cartridge with his design, which was (the Soviet short cartridge) in turn based on the StG's 7.92mmX33mm kurz round, actually developed in 1942, before the StG's debut, once it was recognised that the full-size rifle round was too powerful for a fully-automatic individual weapon. So the Russians learned about the concpet and took it to a new level.


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Cammin1
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#18

Post by Cammin1 » 12 Sep 2003, 01:10

"He also shared the SKS's short cartridge with his design, which was (the Soviet short cartridge) in turn based on the StG's 7.92mmX33mm kurz round, actually developed in 1942, before the StG's debut, once it was recognised that the full-size rifle round was too powerful for a fully-automatic individual weapon."
The Sks was shooting the 7.62/39 before Stg existed, how could it be based on the 7.92 Kurz?

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Jeremy Chan
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#19

Post by Jeremy Chan » 14 Sep 2003, 13:49

But the SKS was developed after the war! You can the similarities between the SKS and AK, and from what I know the SKS was developed sometime after 1945.

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#20

Post by Mark V » 14 Sep 2003, 15:01

Colonel SteelFist wrote:But the SKS was developed after the war! You can the similarities between the SKS and AK, and from what I know the SKS was developed sometime after 1945.
Production started in 1944 - in time to see service on the final stages of WW2.

Mark V

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Cammin1
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#21

Post by Cammin1 » 14 Sep 2003, 20:41

Mark V wrote:
Colonel SteelFist wrote:But the SKS was developed after the war! You can the similarities between the SKS and AK, and from what I know the SKS was developed sometime after 1945.
Production started in 1944 - in time to see service on the final stages of WW2.

Mark V
I think the 44 production was when the Millitary approved/adoptided to produce/use it. I'm nearly positive in the private sector a good number were made in 43 in 7.63/39 and even a few in 1942.
The "sks" rifle was around for a bunch of years before (Siminove, sk39 sk41 etc etc), just shooting different rounds.

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#22

Post by Mark V » 14 Sep 2003, 20:59

Cammin1,

You may be right. i don't remember (or have sources available) when first protos of SKS were build.

Your choosing of words is though peculiar: 'Private sector' ???

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#23

Post by Cammin1 » 14 Sep 2003, 21:09

What I'm trying to say is I think the Stg was designed by the german war machine, it was a goverment project from the start were as Sminov was a privately held company who designed arms and competed with other arms makers for the contrats to build "their" weapon from the goverment. The sks for sure existed before the goverment "picked it" to be in their inventory.

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#24

Post by Mark V » 14 Sep 2003, 21:40

No, no - there weren't any kind of "privately held" companies of significant size in USSR.

Simonov was working in design department of Tula Arsenal - which had some leverage to decide on what they were working (like other design bureaus of Soviet industry also).

Competition between design bureaus in USSR was standard practice - but that has nothing to do with western privately funded research and manufacturing. Industry was always firmly on Governments hands.

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Cammin1
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#25

Post by Cammin1 » 14 Sep 2003, 22:04

opps

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voorst
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#26

Post by voorst » 18 Sep 2003, 09:36

For Ak47 I can say that original idea for russian modern assault rifle was Federov Automat, created during WWI, and not SKS. Although, like postwar models, it never achieved great success. Most of the project seems based upon stg44 (cartdridge, recoil system,..)

Source: Duncan Long

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