BERGMANN Rifle

[rahnie440]

http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=1 ... 8%26sa%3DN

Click on the link and scroll down a little bit. Does anyone have any info on that gun?

Thanks

[stevezz1]

http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=1 ... 8%26sa%3DN

Click on the link and scroll down a little bit. Does anyone have any info on that gun?

Thanks

Hi rahnie,
Welcome to the forum.
The 9mm M.P. 34/1 (Bergmann) was produced at the Bergman factory in Suhl in the early 1930.s.
Like its predecessor the BMK 32, the weapon was made in both a 7.8 inch barrel and 12.6 inch barrel.
In an effort to reduce muzzle rise the barrels featured an integral compensater.
The Bergmann weapons were finely machined and had a commercial quality blue finish.
It had selective fire which was controled by the amount of trigger pressure applied by the shooter.
It was air-cooled, blow-back opperated fed by a box magazine on the right-hand side,( the mp.34(0) was left hand feed) which held 32 rounds.
Caliber 9mm--------Length, 33 inches-------Weight, 9lbs--------Rate of fire, 500 rds/min (max)--------120 rds/min (practical)-------Range, 218 yds. (effective)-------Sights, Front blade, Rear Leaf on ramp, graduated up to 1,000 meters.

Hope this helps some.......

Steve.

Info and images taken from 'Blitzkrieg the mp.40' by Nick Iannamico
Highly recomended.......

[rahnie440]

Was it used by the Germans in WW2?

[varjag]

Rahnie - as far as I understand the Bergmanns were never accepted by the Wehrmacht. But they were reasonably common amongst the Waffen SS and Police units. This may sound strange to all those who spot pictures of exotica like Bergmann and ERMA SMG's in the hands of the SS and instantly think that these 'elites' had something far far superior to the Landser in the Wehrmacht. This is entirely wrong. The Army Ordnance Office (Heereswaffenamt) held an iron fist on the supply of small arms to the armed forces well into 1942. Even before the the outbreak of war in 1939 and well after, Reichsführer Himmler often had to turn to the civilian arms market to equip his braves. It seems like manufacturers like Waffenfabrik Bergmann and ERfurtherMAschinenfabrik during the mid-late thirties had a little bit pre-empted the need for their wares - and,found themselves with 'hard-to-unload' supplies. The SS was a buyer but not the Wehrmacht. For instance, Sweden - inquired in December 1939 about SMG's and presto, Bergmanns could - and did, deliver 1800 pieces instantly and 'ex stock'. The point I'm trying to make - is that the unusual and exotic weaponry sometimes found in the hands of pre-1942 SS-troops, is not related to it's superiority but it's inferiority to what the Heereswaffenamt did choose for the Wehrmacht.

[stevezz1]

Varjag is correct regarding W/SS weapons issue.
It is a myth that the Waffen SS had the pick of weapons or equipment.

Steve.

[gabriel pagliarani]

Varjag is correct regarding W/SS weapons issue.
It is a myth that the Waffen SS had the pick of weapons or equipment.

Steve.

But Bergmann was very similar to the italian MAB that surely equipped some SS units in Italy. Very hard to distinguish between those sister firearms.

[varjag]

I think Gabriel that by the time SS-troops were fighting in Italy - the 'iron fist' of the Heereswaffenamt had become very much softer. The need of small arms had become insatiable - and Germany grabbed whatever was available. 'The Italian MAB submachine-gun' intrigues me - I've never heard of it, can you amplify?

[Unsere_Freiheit]

Did some Japanese paratroopers have the Bergmann also?

(From the Steel Panther World at War)

[gewehrdork]

I have even seen a pic of a prewar SS man with a Bergman MP 18 !!!.aAnd the MP18 used the problemtaic 32 P08 pistol 'snail drum magazine". Last year on the polish version of ebay ( called "ALLEGRO" ) some fellow was selling a dug , but very presentable MP18 with the remains of the snail drum still in place !> Som other cat had a MP35/I that had bonafide SSzzA4 markings and a 1943 production date on it !!. And another fellow had a dug , but very respectable 08/15. In poland at least as long as the bolt face is gorund , barrel obsucred and firing pin removed/broken it's considered just another deactivated gun with no onerous registraion like ANY deactivated MG or small arm has to go through in the US......unless the receiver is torch cut two to three times with .250" width of the cuts.
And for sure the SS was on the bottom of the food chain until late 1942.The Heer gave them battle damaged 98k's and all their cast off gew98's.The SS contracted commercial enterprises to refurbish the 98k's to serviceable and rework the gew98's to 98k configuration.The pretty much stopped in 1942 due to not getting enough rifles from Heer to rework , The first lots of SS backdoor acquisition of 98k's from Steyr ( bnz code ). When The HzA got wind of the SS procurement and setting up to assemble rifles at camps they went ballistic.But the war demands and the SS hierarchy's politcal savvy got them at last what they desired...a foot in the door of the arms food chain to new equipment.

[varjag]

Did some Japanese paratroopers have the Bergmann also?

(From the Steel Panther World at War)

Freiheit - the Nips probably bought batches of most-everything to copy to their own designs. I've never heard of Bergmanns in Japanese hands. But a similar design - the Steyr-Solothurn M.1934 (with a horisontal magazine - but on the left) was used by IJN Marines but numbers unknown. Probably small. Believe it or not - they had them in caliber 7,63 Mauser - which added ANOTHER caliber to their already archaic small arms ammo inventory.

[HKC01]

Japanese forces (e.g MPs, MARINE) did equip with Bergeman as well, but those were manufactured in Swiss as M1920.

The following is a list of SMGs captured by Chinese after the Japanese surrender in 1945. The 2 above was manufactured by Japanese. The lowest one was Bergemann M1920

[HKC01]

It is known that Chinese Nationalist army, especially the so-called central force. Did equip with a number of MP28 in 1920s-1930s.

The most favourable pistol used by Chinese(including gangs and rebels) at that period was in fact Mauser C96 Bloomberg, including the one with selective fire mode.

[Tim Smith]

Correct. The Waffen SS did have the pick of weapons and equipment - but only after 1943 when Hitler began to favour them over the regular Army. In the early years of the war the Waffen SS had to make do with the Heer's leftovers and whatever they could get hold of elsewhere.

Varjag is correct regarding W/SS weapons issue.
It is a myth that the Waffen SS had the pick of weapons or equipment.

Steve.

[stevezz1]

Hi,
Another pic of the Bergmann mp.34(1).

Caption read;"Waffen/SS and Police units during the 1944 Warsaw uprising. Many SS and Policemen still carried the old reliable mp into combat, as this W/SS Unterscharfuher of the 6. SS Gebirgsdivision."
Regards,
Steve.

[audrew]

B.M.P.34 and MP.35/I (Bgm)