The Tannenberg Generals

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askropp
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Re: The Tannenberg Generals

Post by askropp » 16 Aug 2014 18:02

Has anybody access to Hildebrand / Zweng "Die Ritter des Ordens PLM"? Which Neuendorf is mentioned there?
Er ist wieder da. Aber auch dieses Mal wird er nicht siegen!

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Dieter Zinke
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Re: The Tannenberg Generals

Post by Dieter Zinke » 17 Aug 2014 13:32

Hans Petri
* 23.09.1877 Berlin
† 05.03.1945 im ehemaligen Zwangsarbeiterlager Neuendorf (Selbstmord)
[suicide in a former forced labour camp]

Nieder Neuendorf gehört seit 1923 als Ortsteil zum Stadtgebiet von Hennigsdorf an der nordwestlichen Stadtgrenze von Berlin, die hier zum großen Teil durch die Havel gebildet wird
[since 1923 "Nieder Neuendorf" is a district of Hennigsdorf on the NW city boundary of Berlin, in this sector mainly composed by the river Havel]


Dieter Z.

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askropp
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Re: The Tannenberg Generals

Post by askropp » 17 Aug 2014 14:06

But Dieter, the Red Army had not yet crossed the Oder on 5 March. Hennigsdorf was captured on 22 April. So either the place must be wrong or the date.
Er ist wieder da. Aber auch dieses Mal wird er nicht siegen!

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Dieter Zinke
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Re: The Tannenberg Generals

Post by Dieter Zinke » 17 Aug 2014 15:18

Wer sagt denn, dass er in sowjetischer Gefangenschaft gestorben ist ???

I think, he died in german captivity!
He is not listed in
http://samlib.ru/m/minaew_d_n/generals_z_1.shtml
and I find him in
-Foltmann, Josef; Möller, Hanns: Opfergang der Generale. Die Verluste der Generale und Admirale und der im gleichen Dienstrang stehenden sonstigen Offiziere und Beamten im Zweiten Weltkrieg. Verlag Bernard & Graefe, Berlin 1952
not in the chapter Soviet captivity, but in "Heimat".
I have no proof for a NKWD-camp!

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Dieter Z.

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JakeV
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Re: The Tannenberg Generals

Post by JakeV » 17 Aug 2014 15:44

According to Eine Fürstenwalder Geschichte by Horst Helas (http://www.rosalux.de/fileadmin/rls_upl ... hichte.pdf), it is explicitly stated that the last Zwangsarbeitern were transported from Lager Neuendorf in 1943. Therefore, it seems that by 1945 the place was abandoned. But if the German authorities did arrest them for any reason, Lager Neuendorf would be a very odd place of choice to imprison him, as even when it was functioning, it served as a forced labour and transit camp. To me, it would be a bit more reasonable if the Petri, foreseeing the defeat and maybe disillusioned by the the regime, decided to end his life in this abandoned facility. But since we don't know any more facts, this is all but speculation.

Jake

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askropp
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Re: The Tannenberg Generals

Post by askropp » 17 Aug 2014 20:14

A very mysterious case indeed! It is hard to believe that Petri should have been imprisoned in a Zwangsarbeiterlager, even if it had still been running. As far as I know, there is also no indication why Petri should have been arrested by the Nazis at all. So maybe you are correct and he was possibly no prisoner at all when he took his life. I would have speculated that the camp could have had some military function before the war and Petri could have been served there during the Weimar republic, but as it seems, the camp was associated with the local AEG plant where the majority of the slave laborers worked. Maybe Petri resided in a suburb of Berlin and just walked into the woods when he contemplated suicide? I doubt if all facts about this case will ever be known.
Er ist wieder da. Aber auch dieses Mal wird er nicht siegen!

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Re: The Tannenberg Generals

Post by histan » 19 Aug 2014 00:50

Not an answer to any of the questions but for those interested a copy of the order for the "Tannenberg" promotions.
Tann 1.jpg
Tann 2.jpg
Tann 3.jpg
Tann 4.jpg
Second part to follow

Regards

John
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histan
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Re: The Tannenberg Generals

Post by histan » 19 Aug 2014 00:55

Part 2
Tann 5.jpg
Tann 6.jpg
Tann 7.jpg
Tann 8.jpg
As you can tell, source is NARA (T-77 R-397).

Regards

John
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Re: The Tannenberg Generals

Post by abaus » 19 Aug 2014 13:28

John,

Thanks very much for posting a copy of the original document. This ought to clear up any questions regarding the personnel actions taken in August 1939. I find it particularly interesting that the reason behind the actions was the 25th anniversary of the start of the war and the Battle of Tannenberg. Normally, it is just Tannenberg that is mentioned as the reason for these promotions.

Andy

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askropp
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Re: The Tannenberg Generals

Post by askropp » 21 Aug 2014 18:21

I managed to consult "Die Ritter des Ordens PLM", and it is stated there that Petri committed suicide in Neuendorf on MAY 5. Maybe the "March" info was only a typo at the beginning?
Er ist wieder da. Aber auch dieses Mal wird er nicht siegen!

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Dieter Zinke
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Re: The Tannenberg Generals

Post by Dieter Zinke » 22 Aug 2014 08:54

Voilà - as desired.
Nothing else as addition :(

Dieter Z.
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JakeV
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Re: The Tannenberg Generals

Post by JakeV » 22 Aug 2014 17:39

@ John, thank you very much for your input, we don't usually get to take a look at original documents!

Taking a look at Opergang der Generale, the authors state: "Im endgültigen Zusammenbruch Deutschlands schieden weitere Generale freiwillig aus dem Leben. / So der General der Infanterie a. D. Hans Petri [...]". (=In the final collapse of Germany, more Generals committed suicide willfully, like General der Infanterie a. D. Hans Petri). So, either the above theory about Petri is correct, or Folttmann/Müller's information was incorrect to some degree.

(For future reference, although he is not mentioned in http://samlib.ru/m/minaew_d_n/generals_z_1.shtml, neither is Leonhard Kaupisch, who confirmedly died in Soviet captivity in Weimar: http://jochenkaupisch.de/html/leonhard_kaupisch_3.html).

Jake

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askropp
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Re: The Tannenberg Generals

Post by askropp » 22 Aug 2014 21:01

As it seems, several (mainly Austrian?) generals are missing on the official list. I presume they got their Charakter retroactive a short time later, maybe because they were overlooked?
Er ist wieder da. Aber auch dieses Mal wird er nicht siegen!

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askropp
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Re: The Tannenberg Generals

Post by askropp » 24 Aug 2014 16:46

Could somebody tell me when the following Tannenberg generals were placed z.V.? For the majority, it will have been either 26 August or 1 September 1939, but some could be different.

von Bartenwerffer, Gustav
von Bünau, Heinrich
Fritsch, Lothar
Gudowius, Erich
Haenicke, Siegfried
Herrgott, Adolf
Hüttmann, Adolf
Freiherr von Rotberg, Albert
von Schwerin, Manfred
Steppuhn, Albrecht
von Voß, Hans
Wilck, Hermann
Zunehmer, Max

Also, for Jake: I think Emil Ilse was char. Gen. d. Art., not Inf. And what is your source for Zunehmer having "fallen" in Kassel on 1 January 1945? This could have only been possible in an air raid. Any info on his death?
Er ist wieder da. Aber auch dieses Mal wird er nicht siegen!

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JakeV
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Re: The Tannenberg Generals

Post by JakeV » 24 Aug 2014 18:44

Hello,

Yes, you are right, the case of Ilse is a lapsus calami, so to speak.

Zunehmer is mentioned as "gefallen" in Folttman/Müller: Opfergang der Generale. And Kassel was indeed bombed on 1 January 1945 (http://lagis-hessen.de/de/subjects/brow ... 945/sn/edb). It would be reasonable to deduce that Zunehmer was among the victims (quite an unfortunate end for Wehrmacht's oldest officer in active service).

Jake

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