General Hermann von Staab

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5th Horseman
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General Hermann von Staab

Post by 5th Horseman » 25 Feb 2010 04:45

I'm looking for a copy of, or copies from Aufmarsch nach zwei Fronten : auf Grund der Operationspläne von 1870-1914, written by General Hermann von Staab, head of the Railway Department of the General Staff in 1925.
The book details in tables, charts and text how the German Army could have transferred 4 armies from the west to fight on the eastern front in the first days of World War I.

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jwsleser
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Re: General Hermann von Staab

Post by jwsleser » 01 Mar 2010 19:37

5th Horseman

I have a photo copy of the book at home. IIRC, it doesn't provide charts or tables on the actual deployment schedules for the Große Ostaufmarsch. What von Staabs does is argue that the armies could have been deployed east instead of west and the implementation of the 'Schlieffen-Plan' was not locked in stone. The book does list the armies, corps, and divisions and their general deployments if the major effort had been made in the east (addresses both the western and eastern front deployments). Also IIRC, the deployments only reflect to those German forces available when the plan was last updated (about 1912).

Are you seeking something specific, or the actual deployment schedules?

Jeff
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5th Horseman
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Re: General Hermann von Staab

Post by 5th Horseman » 01 Mar 2010 23:57

Hello Jeff,

Hmmm. I was hoping for the ever impressive Teutonic technical efficiency in listing every last detail.
I was hoping for relatively detailed arrival locations and times for divisional and corps sized units.
Any schedules, actually, would have been nice.

Thanks for the reply and kindest regards, Scott

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jwsleser
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Re: General Hermann von Staab

Post by jwsleser » 02 Mar 2010 01:10

Scott

Scanned the book again tonight: pretty much what I have already stated. It is a slim book, 85 pages and two maps. Pages 1-41 cover the history of the German war planning from 1871 to 1914. Pages 41-51 discusses the actual 1914 operation. Pages 51-76 is a chapter called 'Could the German Campaign Plan have been altered at the beginning of the war?' (Konnte der deutsche Feldzugsplan noch bei Kriegsausbruch geändert werden?). Here Staab's makes his argument that the western deployment could have been changed. Unfortunately, he doesn't support his argument with details of the existing Ostaufmarsch plan, but addresses the issue at a higher, theoretical level. This chapter is mostly a 'don't blame the Rail Section of the GS for the attack on France' discussion.

If you want, I can scan and save the book as a PDF. Just PM an e-mail address where I can send it. It is written in old German script (Fraktur). If you read German, but aren't familar with Fraktur,it is a bit to get comfortable with the letters/words. If you don't read German, then it will be pretty hard to get anything from the book beyond the two maps and the army organizations, which are lists (with some notes in Fraktur).

Sorry, no detailed rail schedules or timings.

Pista!

Jeff
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5th Horseman
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Re: General Hermann von Staab

Post by 5th Horseman » 02 Mar 2010 22:31

Hello Jeff,
Well, I appreciate your informative answers. I had hoped the book was more technical in nature, predicting movements and arrival times, etc.
I have an old German map which shows the "deployment areas" for the armies had they staged in the east. So, that gives me some latitude, and if General Staabs book can't prove me wrong, then alls well that ends well.
As a scenario designer I strive for the most accurate information available, but sometimes it just isn't there.
Thanks again, you've been very helpful and I appreciate you checking the book for me.
Kindest regards, Scott

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Re: General Hermann von Staab

Post by miketr » 01 Feb 2014 20:25

First of all sorry for the thread Necromancy. I am interested in seeing if I could get a copy of "Aufmarsch nach zwei Fronten : auf Grund der Operationspläne von 1870-1914" and I see from this thread that jwsleser has a copy in German and I would like to ask him if I could get a PDF that he offered a few years back.

Michael

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Re: General Hermann von Staab

Post by jwsleser » 01 Feb 2014 22:51

Michael

Yes I have issue in providing you a copy. I just need to rediscover where I put the .pdf file. I haven't found it on my home computer, so it might be at my office. I will try to find it in the next few days. I still have a printed copy of the book, so if I need to, I can scan it once again.

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Re: General Hermann von Staab

Post by jwsleser » 03 Feb 2014 17:52

Michael

Files sent in two e-mails this morning.

Pista! Jeff
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Re: General Hermann von Staab

Post by carronade » 12 Feb 2014 20:03

Interesting to read this. You've no doubt read Tuchman; she makes it seem as though von Staab's book had considerably more detail:

When Moltke's "It cannot be done" was revealed after the war in his memoirs, General von Staab, Chief of the Railway Division, was so incensed by what he considered a reproach upon his bureau that he wrote a book to prove it could have been done. In pages of charts and graphs he demonstrated how, given notice on August 1, he could have deployed four out of the seven armies to the Eastern Front by August 15, leaving three to defend the West.

And of course she goes on to say that:

Moltke himself acknowledged "within six months of the event....that the assault on France at the beginning was a mistake and instead "the larger part of our army ought first to have been sent East to smash the Russian steam roller, limiting operations in the West to beating off the enemy's attack on our frontier."

p.s. Staab was quite a name for a German staff officer :wink:

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Re: General Hermann von Staab

Post by Hoplophile » 01 Jul 2014 01:51

I've long been a fan of Barbara Tuchman, so much so that it feels odd to correct her misspelling of the name of "Hermann von Staabs." (The attachment is a screen shot of a section of a scan of the title page of Aufmarsch nach Zwei Fronten.)
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NoMommsen
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Re: General Hermann von Staab

Post by NoMommsen » 15 Apr 2016 08:03

Hello all there, hopefully you dond't have an issue with me on calling up such an old subject. :oops:

But as I'm very interested on this subject I have to ask an old question again to jwsleser : would it be possible for you to provide me with your electronic copy of
"Aufmarsch nach zwei Fronten : auf Grund der Operationspläne von 1870-1914" by Hermann von Staabs
also ?

THX in advance for your efforts.

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jwsleser
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Re: General Hermann von Staab

Post by jwsleser » 15 Apr 2016 16:32

NoMommsen

I have no issues in providing a copy. PM to me your e-mail address.

Pista! Jeff
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NoMommsen
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Re: General Hermann von Staab

Post by NoMommsen » 16 Apr 2016 19:26

MANY THX :-))

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Re: General Hermann von Staab

Post by Nomen Nescio » 02 Jun 2016 22:33

Hello,
could you also send me a copy of this interesting book? ("Aufmarsch nach zwei Fronten : auf Grund der Operationspläne von 1870-1914")
I came from Haffner's "Wunder an der Marne" and found in Tuchman's book the name of Staab...

Thanks in advance

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jwsleser
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Re: General Hermann von Staab

Post by jwsleser » 03 Jun 2016 12:01

Yes I can. Please PM me your e-mail address.

Pista! Jeff
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