The German Imperial and Federation flag ? WHY ?

Discussions on all aspects of Imperial Germany not covered in the other sections.
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Mikael
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The German Imperial and Federation flag ? WHY ?

Post by Mikael » 23 Oct 2003 20:24

I talked to a student today, whom look up to me for my knowledge in German History. And actually, i was ashamed when he came with the simple question .

1. The Imperial German flag. why does it have those colors ? I mean, France has their for King, Noble and people. How is it with the Imperial One ?

2. Oh and the present one, i think that was used before as well.

That he asked.. And i could not give a good answer, for i do not know.
My guess was that the Imperial german flag, that the white and black was for Hohenzollern and Prussia. And i did not know about the present one at all, only that it had a long history.. SO i hope you can help me :)

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tyskaorden
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Post by tyskaorden » 23 Oct 2003 21:25

The present German Flagg the Schwarz-Rot-Gold are said to have its origins in the Colours of the uniforms of the Lützow Free Corps, the Uniforms where Black, Red and Gold.

The Lützow Free Corps was formed by the prussian officer Adolf von Lützow to fight for German independence against Napoleon.

//Tyskaorden alias Marcus Karlsson

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Bone Collector
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Post by Bone Collector » 23 Oct 2003 22:43

One thing I'd like to know. After WWII when Germany became a republic again, why didn't they take back the old Weimar republic flag?

I mean if France would be overruned by fascist, changing the flag, then they'd be defeated by the people who would make France a republic again they would most likely take back the old republic flag. Why didn't Germany do the same?

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Post by nondescript handle » 23 Oct 2003 23:06

Bone Collector wrote:One thing I'd like to know. After WWII when Germany became a republic again, why didn't they take back the old Weimar republic flag?

I mean if France would be overruned by fascist, changing the flag, then they'd be defeated by the people who would make France a republic again they would most likely take back the old republic flag. Why didn't Germany do the same?


Actually, they did... :)
Both post-ww2 German states.

Flag of the "Weimar republic":
Image

Flag of the "German Democratic Republic":
Image

Flag of the Federal Republic of Germany:
Image

Regards
Mark[/img]

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Bone Collector
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Post by Bone Collector » 24 Oct 2003 09:02

Oops, I happened to say the weimar republic when I really meant the Norddeutscher Bund.

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Why didn't the weimar republic and the republics after Nazi Germany use this flag?

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tyskaorden
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Post by tyskaorden » 24 Oct 2003 10:19

Bone Collector wrote:Oops, I happened to say the weimar republic when I really meant the Norddeutscher Bund.

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Why didn't the weimar republic and the republics after Nazi Germany use this flag?


Since this flag also was used by the Imperial Germany. In the Weimar Republic there was however some use of the old imperial flag. This stemmed from the so called Flaggenstreit (Flag Conflict) dividing the new Republic in to two fractions, they who wanted to make the black-red-gold flag as the sole flag of the Country and those who wanted to keep the black-white-red flag designed in 1867 by Bismarck by combining the colours black and white of Prussia with the red-white of Brandenburg.

The situation grew very tense and the Goverment of the Weimar Republic desided upon a compromise. The black-red-gold flag became the national flag, but all flags for use at sea (civil ensign, state ensign, war ensign and jack) was to be black-white-red, with the national flag in the canton.

The black-red-gold flag can thus be seen as a republican Flag and the black-white-red as a imperial/monarchist one.

//MK

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Windward
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Post by Windward » 01 Nov 2003 16:26

http://flagspot.net/flags/de_his.html

The schwarz-weiß-rot (black-white-red) German imperial flag was adopted by the North German Confederation in 1867, as a combination of the black-white of Prussia and the red-white of the Hanseatic League [and/or of Brandenburg]. In 1871 it was adopted as merchant flag for the German Empire, and in 1892 promoted to national flag.

Norman Martin, 1998


Image Image
State flag and civil flag of Prussia

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State flag of Brandenburg

With the establishment of the German Empire in 1871, [the black-white-red flag of the North German League] was maintained, Art. 55 of the Imperial Constitution of 16 April 1871 has the same reading as that of the North German League: "Die Flagge der Kriegs- und Handelsmarine ist schwarz-weiß-rot" (the flag of the navy and merchant fleet is black-white-red). This flag was declared to be the national flag 8 November 1892 and continued in use until after the fall of the monarchy. During the National Assembly that established the Weimar [Republic] there was nearly as much support for continuing it as for establishing the black-red-gold flag which eventually was established by the adoption of the Constitution 11 August 1918 (in effect 14 August). The provision of the Flag Ordinance of 11 April [1921] however allowed the use of the old flags, presumably including this one, until the end of the year. In short one could regard the black-white-red flag to have been de facto replaced with the earliest use of the black-red-gold (or red) flags late in 1918, or by the Weimar Constitution (and first flag ordinance) in 1919 or by the final date of the Flag Ordinance of 1921. (It was readopted by the Nazi government in 1933, but again abolished by the flag law in 1935.)

Source: my series [of contributions to FOTW] on the flags of the German Empire of 1998, much material from the article I wrote with Rüdiger Dreyhaupt (Martin and Dreyhaupt 1999) and some other material.

Illustrations (only major vexillological sources): Martin and Dreyhaupt 1999, no. 15; Crampton 1990, p. 42 (which is a copy of Meyers Konversationslexikon 1912, vol. 4, facing p. 799) no. 1; Znamierowski 1999, p. 48; Smith 1975, p. 121.

Norman Martin, 26 January 2001

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Windward
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Post by Windward » 01 Nov 2003 16:28

For information about black-red-gold flag, you can visit here:

http://flagspot.net/flags/de1848.html

Best Regards!

prj453
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Post by prj453 » 20 Nov 2003 03:42

The black-red-gold flag was also used by the Principality of Waldeck und Pyrmont during the Second Reich:

http://www.worldstatesmen.org/German_States4.html

-Patrick

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