Role of light german craft

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panzerkrieg
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Role of light german craft

#1

Post by panzerkrieg » 21 Jan 2005, 01:48

The strategy employed by the germans at the start of the great war was of attrition against RN using the mine and torpedo,what were the tactics used by these vessels?Apparently a wide range of craft were involved mostly steamers fishing boats and old torpedo boats,what chance did these vessels had against the royal navy?The submarine was without doubt useful but i think RN had a larger submarine fleet.What was the best way for these auxillary warships to strike at the Royal navy?

monk2002uk
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#2

Post by monk2002uk » 21 Jan 2005, 21:41

I can only answer this question with respect to the Belgian coast. Mark Karau's book 'Wielding the Dagger: The MarinesKorps Flandern and the German war effort, 1914-1918' gives a very detailed account. Admiral von Shroeder was keen to pursue the German naval policy of Kleinkrieg from the newly captured bases of Ostend, Brugges and Zeebrugge. The aim was to use destroyers, torpedo boats and submarines to strike at the British fleet and merchant navy. The German navy initially refused to let him have any destroyers. The torpedo boats occasionally carried out raids into the British Channel but their key role seems to have been in identifying and clearing British anti-submarine nets and barriers, providing early warning of British attacks, mine-clearing, and assisting in the very few operations requiring naval gunfire support, such as Operation Strandfest. German submarines operating from Belgian were relatively short-range craft initially; later versions were capable of operating further afield but the Dover Patrol instituted elaborate anti-submarine measures to protect the channel. The Germans used mine-laying submarines, as well as submarines firing torpedoes.

Some destroyers were sent to Flanders. They executed two effective raids but the German naval command refused to allow their ongoing aggressive use in this area. German submarines from Flanders bases accounted for 25% of British shipping losses to submarines. By the latter part of the war, British seaplane and airship patrols were limiting the range of German submarines and reducing their effectiveness. Bombing missions also began to take a toll on the submarine bases, although the actual submarine shelters in Brugges were very effective.

Robert


panzerkrieg
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#3

Post by panzerkrieg » 22 Jan 2005, 03:20

hi robert ,
thanks for the reply,by torpedo boats do you mean the 1885-1892 series? and after that i think the 1898-1911 series was classified as destroyers.....i am guessing
for minesweeping i dont think the german navy had minesweepers in 1914,so probably the fishing boats and trawlers were converted much like the vorpostenboot of kriegsmarine.
i will definatly try to get Mark Karau's book.

nathan

monk2002uk
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#4

Post by monk2002uk » 22 Jan 2005, 09:27

The Flanders Flotillas were formed in late April 1915. The delays were due to the intransigence of the German naval command, who came up with all sorts of reasons not to support von Schroeder's proposals. In the end, the U-boats were shipped in pieces to Antwerpen and assembled there. The torpedo boats included A-I, A-II, A-III and V-classes. The latter were fitted out to serve as mine-sweepers as well. There is no mention of trawlers being used in this role at an earlier time, though this does not exclude the possibility.

One reason for the delay in operations was the need to complete the shore batteries for protecting Ostend and Zeebrugge. The MarinesKorps Flandern also operated a number of seaplanes for spotting purposes.

The destroyers were G- and S-class but they only served for short periods.

Karau's book is expensive ($65 for cheapest copy on Abebooks) but it is very well written and researched. A must for anyone with a deep interest in German naval operations in this area, though it only scratches the surface on what was happening further north in Germany. I was mostly interested in the MarineKorps itself, and the land operations it was involved in. This stems from an interest in Operation Hush, the proposed British amphibious landing at Middelkerke.

Robert

Edward L. Hsiao
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Re: Role of light german craft

#5

Post by Edward L. Hsiao » 08 Jul 2019, 09:03

I'm wondering if the German small floating crafts were used a lot on the Baltic Sea during WWI against Russian shipping?

Edward L. Hsiao

Felix C
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Re: Role of light german craft

#6

Post by Felix C » 08 Jul 2019, 15:11

Hello Edward.

I have researched a bit on the Baltic campaign and the answer would be very limited sweeps by Ger. light craft except in support of land operations. Russian mines were very efficient. On one occasion a Ger. Flotilla ran onto a minefield and several were lost. Gulf of Finland and Riga defended by geography and minefields. There was coastal traffic between both which kept close inshore and was protected by minefields. Rene Gregor wrote a good summary in his Russian Fleet 1914-1917 book. The Russians were initially aggressive in using their light forces against Ger. sea communications. The Novik class were superior and very much respected by the Ger. This would be 1914 and 1915 and some 1916. Ger. light forces did operate against the shipping fleeing the Gulf of Riga in 1917 when the area was finally occupied by Ger. land forces

Edward L. Hsiao
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Re: Role of light german craft

#7

Post by Edward L. Hsiao » 09 Jul 2019, 10:01

Thank you for your answer. I wonder if there were a few examples of Russian merchant ships being sunk by German small floating crafts that you can put down on this topic? I know this knowledge is not well known.


Edward L. Hsiao

Felix C
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Re: Role of light german craft

#8

Post by Felix C » 09 Jul 2019, 23:38

British steamer Penelope torpedoed 24th August 1917 by SMS GLEITBOOT when 3 cables from Swalfer Ort LH in the Gulf of Riga, on passage outward from Petrograd (while serving as commissioned transport in the Russian Baltic Fleet). That would be a German Schnellboot with a four man crew. Sort of a German CMB. Source is the Rene Gregor book referred to.

SS Dagmar was scuttled by V-28 near Kuno Island, Riga on the 19th August 1915. Previously called SS Aawasaksa from 1871-1911.

Edward L. Hsiao
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Re: Role of light german craft

#9

Post by Edward L. Hsiao » 12 Jul 2019, 13:54

Thank you for your contribution. Learned something new.

Edward L. Hsiao

Felix C
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Re: Role of light german craft

#10

Post by Felix C » 13 Jul 2019, 18:46

A German TB flotilla lost 7 of 10 ships over a two day period to mines. 2 one day and 5 the next when attempting to raid Russian waters.
Provides an example of how dangerous Russian waters were.

Nice read here: http://badewanne.fi/?page_id=634

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