Pour le mérite holders

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Kriegsmarine Großadmiral
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Re: Pour le mérite holders

Post by Kriegsmarine Großadmiral » 06 Mar 2018 21:30

Who are these Pour le mérite holders? Especially the Admiral?
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Re: Pour le mérite holders

Post by Kriegsmarine Großadmiral » 27 Mar 2018 22:20

The Admiral above is Wilhelm von Lans.

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Re: Pour le mérite holders

Post by Kriegsmarine Großadmiral » 27 Mar 2018 22:30

On page 20 the Admiral 5 was identified as Wilhelm Souchon. I don't think it is him.
Yes he wears a Gallipoli Star, but look at his sleeve insignia, he is clearly a Vizeadmiral and Souchon was an Admiral (promoted in 1918 and this photo was taken in 1936). And also he looks much taller and fatter than Souchon (see 2nd photo below for comparison).
Does anyone have any ideas about who he is if not Souchon?
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DavidFrankenberg
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Re: Pour le mérite holders

Post by DavidFrankenberg » 28 Mar 2018 11:39

It is Souchon like 100%.
He did great things as a Vizeadmiral during the war. He did nothing great as an Admiral. Maybe that's why he prefers to wear his Vizeadmiral uniform during this ceremony ?

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Re: Pour le mérite holders

Post by Kriegsmarine Großadmiral » 28 Mar 2018 16:30

DavidFrankenberg wrote:It is Souchon like 100%.
He did great things as a vizeadmiral during the war. He did nothing great as an admiral. Maybe that's why he prefers to wear his vizeadmiral uniform during this ceremony ?
If he held the rank of Admiral he HAD to wear an Admiral uniform, he didn't get to choose which rank to wear on his uniform.
But, after some time I managed to find out the man in question is actually Vizeadmiral Walter Engelhardt (see 1st photo below, pictured here as Kapitan zur See, before 1916 (so at least 20 years before the 1st photo I posted) when he was promoted to Konteradmiral. He was promoted to Vizeadmiral in 1919).
Engelhardt was also awarded the Kommandeurkreuz 2. Klasse des Dannebrogorden (listed in the 1914 Rangliste) that can be seen on the photo (see 2nd photo below).
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Re: Pour le mérite holders

Post by DavidFrankenberg » 28 Mar 2018 20:32

Kriegsmarine Großadmiral wrote:
DavidFrankenberg wrote:It is Souchon like 100%.
He did great things as a vizeadmiral during the war. He did nothing great as an admiral. Maybe that's why he prefers to wear his vizeadmiral uniform during this ceremony ?
If he held the rank of Admiral he HAD to wear an Admiral uniform, he didn't get to choose which rank to wear on his uniform.
But, after some time I managed to find out the man in question is actually Vizeadmiral Walter Engelhardt (see 1st photo below, pictured here as Kapitan zur See, before 1916 (so at least 20 years before the 1st photo I posted) when he was promoted to Konteradmiral. He was promoted to Vizeadmiral in 1919).
Engelhardt was also awarded the Kommandeurkreuz 2. Klasse des Dannebrogorden (listed in the 1914 Rangliste) that can be seen on the photo (see 2nd photo below).
Incredible. Very good job !
They are very similar. What about their height ?

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Re: Pour le mérite holders

Post by Kriegsmarine Großadmiral » 28 Mar 2018 20:59

DavidFrankenberg wrote:
Kriegsmarine Großadmiral wrote:
DavidFrankenberg wrote:It is Souchon like 100%.
He did great things as a vizeadmiral during the war. He did nothing great as an admiral. Maybe that's why he prefers to wear his vizeadmiral uniform during this ceremony ?
If he held the rank of Admiral he HAD to wear an Admiral uniform, he didn't get to choose which rank to wear on his uniform.
But, after some time I managed to find out the man in question is actually Vizeadmiral Walter Engelhardt (see 1st photo below, pictured here as Kapitan zur See, before 1916 (so at least 20 years before the 1st photo I posted) when he was promoted to Konteradmiral. He was promoted to Vizeadmiral in 1919).
Engelhardt was also awarded the Kommandeurkreuz 2. Klasse des Dannebrogorden (listed in the 1914 Rangliste) that can be seen on the photo (see 2nd photo below).
Incredible. Very good job !
They are very similar. What about their height ?
Thank you. It is impossible to compare the height because the 1st photo is the only one of Engelhardt avaliable to me.
But I am 99% sure it's Engelhardt on the 2nd photo.

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Re: Pour le mérite holders

Post by luftk » 02 Apr 2018 19:57

Any idea who this holder is?
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Re: Pour le mérite holders

Post by DavidFrankenberg » 02 Apr 2018 22:58

What about his collar tabs ? He is Major / Sturmbannführer. But "B..." ?

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Re: Pour le mérite holders

Post by luftk » 03 Apr 2018 10:49

DavidFrankenberg wrote:What about his collar tabs ? He is Major / Sturmbannführer. But "B..." ?
It looks like "Br...." something. Braunschweig perhaps?

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Re: Pour le mérite holders

Post by DavidFrankenberg » 06 Apr 2018 23:54

What about the date of the photo ? The man looks very old like 70-80.

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Re: Pour le mérite holders

Post by ttvon » 07 Apr 2018 01:22

DavidFrankenberg wrote:What about the date of the photo ? The man looks very old like 70-80.
The date is 9 1938

ttvon

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Re: Pour le mérite holders

Post by DavidFrankenberg » 07 Apr 2018 20:10

This "B..." is frustrating.
Maybe we should ask there https://forum.axishistory.com/viewforum.php?f=8 ?

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Re: Pour le mérite holders

Post by DavidFrankenberg » 09 Apr 2018 12:18

Ok. We have the answer https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic ... 3#p2133513 The B is followed by r meaning "Brigade". The second part of the insignia that we dont see is the number of the Brigade in which the man was Major.
Without the number, would be harder to identify him.

This is the list of 64 Majors who received Pour le Mérite in WWI (from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_t ... recipients) :
99% of them received it in the last year of the war between nov 17 and nov 18 (the year of the defeat).

Walter Arens
Paul Baader 20 oct 18
Josef Barth 9 aug 18
Friedrich Becker 17 September 1918
Curt von Beerfelde Major Army 21 April 1918
Hans Beseler 28 11 17
Ernst von Bila 23 aug 18
Cordt von Brandis 14 mar 16
Hans Bronsart von Schellendorff 25 10 18
Karl Friederici aug 18
Georg von Götz
Ferdinand Herold
Whilhelm Humser
Fritz Theodor Kremkow nov 1900
Rudolf Lange 18
Emil Berthold Meyer 18
Wilhelm Pfaehler 18
Clemens Pfafferott 18
Benno Pflugradt 18
Arthur Pikardi 18
Friedrich von Pirscher 18
Axel von Platen 18
Karl Ritter von Prager 17 but made general in 1930, so cant be him.
Kurt Moritz von Quednow
Franz de Rainville
Karl von Rettberg
Berend Roosen
Albrecht Freiherr von Rotberg
Otto Runhau
Philip Sander
Felix Schelle
Werner Schering
Ernst Adolph Alphons Freiherr von Schimmelmann
Walter Freiherr von Schleinitz
Johann Ritter von Schmidtler
Walther Schnieber
Rudolf Schniewindt
Wilhelm Schniewindt
Emil von Schnizer
Roderich von Schoeler
Albert Schoen
Ernst von Schönfeldt
Walter Schultz
Just Friedrich von Seelhorst
Hans Sehmsdorff
Theodor Sproesser
Hermann von Staab
Markus Stachow
Max Stapff
Hermann von Stein
Adolf Steinwachs
Albrecht Steppuhn
Albrecht Graf von Stosch
Ernst von Unger
Walter von Unruh
Hans Peter van Vaernewyck
Alfred von Vollard-Bockelberg
Hans von Boss
Fritz Freiherr von Wedekind
Eduard von Westhoven
Georg Wetzell
Ludwig Wilhelm Freiherr von Willisen
Siegfried Woltersdorf
Hermann Wülfing
Fritz Wulff
Ernst Graf Yorck von Wartenburg

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Re: Pour le mérite holders

Post by luftk » 09 Apr 2018 19:34

Good work David.

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