Artillery in the colonies 1914

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CharlesRollinsWare
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Artillery in the colonies 1914

Post by CharlesRollinsWare » 04 Sep 2006 01:15

Gentleman;

There are numerous references, both in written accounts and in photos, of the types of artillery in the German colonies when the war began in 1914. Clearly, those most commonly noted are 3,7 (1#) Krupp QF Feldkanon, 3,7 cm (1#) Hotchkiss Revolverkanon, and 7 cm (11#) Krupp C73 Feldkanon.

Numbers for DOA appear to be fifteen 3,7 (but how many FK vs RK), and seven C73, as well as at least two 4,7 cm (3#) [GebK or FK?] and two 6 cm (7#) GebK [although I thought there were eight]. Numbers for Kamerun include two 3,7 "QF" (RK or FK?), one 6 cm GebK, two 7 cm C73 and 4 9 cm C73. I have no clue for DSWA or Togo.

The details of the revolverkanon and the C73 are right common As for the others, however ...?... So, my question ...

Does anyone have specific details on:

1. "the" 3,7 cm Krupp QF FK
2. "the" unnamed type of 4,7 cm FK/GebK
3. "the" unnamed type of 6 cm GebK

Any help will be most appreciated!

Mark E. Horan

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Gregorus
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Artillery in the colonies 1914

Post by Gregorus » 04 Jan 2009 09:31

Hello, dear members!

Do you know something about not too much German artillery gun in Deutsch-Neuguinea?
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Re: Artillery in the colonies 1914

Post by stulev » 04 Jan 2009 15:35

German New Guinea was supposed to be non-fortified - it had no military presents except for a couple of reserve officers -- the Bittapaka battle with the Australian forces was fought with native police and German settlers.

over the years I have not seen anything about artillery in the colony - I think the Australians installed some guns as harbor defense after they took over.

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Gregorus
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Re: Artillery in the colonies 1914

Post by Gregorus » 04 Jan 2009 16:54

stulev wrote:German New Guinea was supposed to be non-fortified - it had no military presents except for a couple of reserve officers -- the Bittapaka battle with the Australian forces was fought with native police and German settlers.

over the years I have not seen anything about artillery in the colony - I think the Australians installed some guns as harbor defense after they took over.
Interesting information about German artillery in Deutsch-Neuguinea is here:

Die Polizeitruppe Deutsch-Neuguineas 1887-1914

Von Thomas Morlang

...Schwere Waffen dagegen besaß die Truppe nicht. Eine im Hauptlager des Gouvernements liegende 3,7cm Revolverkanone- war von dem Vermessungsschiff Planet mitgenommen worden, das am 30. Juli
Kurs auf Jap genommen hatte, um die dortige Funkstation zu schützen. Die zweite in Neuguinea
existierende Revolverkanone befand sich in Friedrich-Wilhelmshafen. Zwei weitere in
Rabaul stehende Geschütze größeren Kalibers waren nur noch zum Salutschießen zu verwenden.
Maschinengewehre gab es in der ganzen Kolonie nicht...


Yet the question remains what it is?

http://www.micsem.org/photos/sokehs/11.htm

Revolverkanone this is it?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... kanone.jpg
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CharlesRollinsWare
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Re: Artillery in the colonies 1914

Post by CharlesRollinsWare » 04 Jan 2009 18:50

In the first link, all I see is a maxim gun. The second link shows a Hotchkiss 3,7 com revolverkanon in DoA.

Mark

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Gregorus
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Re: Artillery in the colonies 1914

Post by Gregorus » 04 Jan 2009 19:05

CharlesRollinsWare wrote:In the first link, all I see is a maxim gun. The second link shows a Hotchkiss 3,7 com revolverkanon in DoA.

Mark
In theory, in colonies Deutsch-Neuguine, there was no machine guns.
...Maschinengewehre gab es in der ganzen Kolonie nicht...
So how was it really?

G
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Re: Artillery in the colonies 1914

Post by CharlesRollinsWare » 04 Jan 2009 19:29

Gents;

I actually posted this some time ago on another thread, but seeing my post above that has so little "hard" information in it, I though I would post the results of my subsequent research on the aritillery in the German African colonies in 1914:

Togo: no kanonen at all. Its weapons were limited to the weapons of the Polizeitruppe, some MG (IIRC, 8), and Gewehr-71 & Karbiner-88, and the privately owned weapons of the European settlers in the colony.

Kamerun: 8 kanonen [4 x 9 cm c73/91 Geschütze, 3 x 3,7 cm Schnellfeuergeschütze, 1 x 6 cm Gebirgs-haubitze], 60 MG, 3,861 Karabiner-98 (2,2 million rounds), and 2,920 Gewehr-71 & Karbiner-88 (0.5 million rounds).

DSWA: 68-75 kanonen in the colony (sources differ on whether the old "museum pieces" were ever mounted) of a myriad of makes and not all of which were fielded in the defense of the colony [only the first 46 took the field at any point, the rest were in various forts]: 4 x 10,5-cm leFH 98 (2,000 shells), 8 x 7,7-cm FK 96 n.A., 22 x 7,7-cm FK 96 (16,000 shells), 12 x 7,5-cm Ehrhardt Geb.K L/17 m08 (6,000 shells), 4 (9?) x 3,7-cm Krupp Maschinenkanone (pom-pom), 3 x 5,7-cm QF guns, 3 (2?) x 3,7-cm Revolverkanone, 6 x 7 cm Krupp Geb.K L/14 M 98, 4 (3?) x 6-cm Krupp Geb.K, 4 x 8-cm FK C/73 [not used]

DOA: 59 kanonen, although not all at one time. At the start of the war there were 35 kanone available in the colony of which they were able to field 31: 19 x 3,7 cm light guns with 3,120 shells, 3 x 4,7 cm light guns with 1,189 shells, 2 x 6 cm colonial guns with 257 shells, 7x 7,85 cm Krupp C.73 field cannon with 2,512 shells (5 were saluting guns; 4 others were lost when the lighter carrying them was scuttled on 5 August 1914 and they were not recoverable)

Additionally, the Germans were able to field 10 other kanonen in early 1914: 2 x old 4 cm guns that had been supplied years before for the lake steamers Hedwig von Wissmann and Hermann von Wissmann to use in tariff enforcement, 3 x old cast off museum & show pieces [1 x 6,5 cm Gebirgs gun, 1 x old C.73 gun, and 1 x old 15 cm naval gun that could only fire ancient British ammunition (which was obtained from recovered duds!)]. When SMS Möwe was scuttled she supplied 3 x 3,7 cm revolverkanone, and the light cruiser SMS Königsberg had sent ashore 2 x 8,8 cm QF guns with 400 shells she had carried to equip a raider.

In addition, 18 additional kanonen were fielded later: 2 x 6-cm- Bootslandungskanonen brought by SS Rubens in 1915, 10 x 10.5 cm Schnellladekanone salvaged from SMS Konigsberg in 1915, and 4 x 10,5-cm Feld-Haubitze m.98/09 and 2 x 7,5-cm Gebirgs-kanon m.08 brought by SS Marie in 1916.

Hope this helps.

Mark

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Re: Artillery in the colonies 1914

Post by Gregorus » 05 Jan 2009 19:09

CharlesRollinsWare wrote:Gents;

I actually posted this some time ago on another thread, but seeing my post above that has so little "hard" information in it, I though I would post the results of my subsequent research on the aritillery in the German African colonies in 1914:

Togo: no kanonen at all. Its weapons were limited to the weapons of the Polizeitruppe, some MG (IIRC, 8), and Gewehr-71 & Karbiner-88, and the privately owned weapons of the European settlers in the colony.

Kamerun: 8 kanonen [4 x 9 cm c73/91 Geschütze, 3 x 3,7 cm Schnellfeuergeschütze, 1 x 6 cm Gebirgs-haubitze], 60 MG, 3,861 Karabiner-98 (2,2 million rounds), and 2,920 Gewehr-71 & Karbiner-88 (0.5 million rounds).

DSWA: 68-75 kanonen in the colony (sources differ on whether the old "museum pieces" were ever mounted) of a myriad of makes and not all of which were fielded in the defense of the colony [only the first 46 took the field at any point, the rest were in various forts]: 4 x 10,5-cm leFH 98 (2,000 shells), 8 x 7,7-cm FK 96 n.A., 22 x 7,7-cm FK 96 (16,000 shells), 12 x 7,5-cm Ehrhardt Geb.K L/17 m08 (6,000 shells), 4 (9?) x 3,7-cm Krupp Maschinenkanone (pom-pom), 3 x 5,7-cm QF guns, 3 (2?) x 3,7-cm Revolverkanone, 6 x 7 cm Krupp Geb.K L/14 M 98, 4 (3?) x 6-cm Krupp Geb.K, 4 x 8-cm FK C/73 [not used]

DOA: 59 kanonen, although not all at one time. At the start of the war there were 35 kanone available in the colony of which they were able to field 31: 19 x 3,7 cm light guns with 3,120 shells, 3 x 4,7 cm light guns with 1,189 shells, 2 x 6 cm colonial guns with 257 shells, 7x 7,85 cm Krupp C.73 field cannon with 2,512 shells (5 were saluting guns; 4 others were lost when the lighter carrying them was scuttled on 5 August 1914 and they were not recoverable)

Additionally, the Germans were able to field 10 other kanonen in early 1914: 2 x old 4 cm guns that had been supplied years before for the lake steamers Hedwig von Wissmann and Hermann von Wissmann to use in tariff enforcement, 3 x old cast off museum & show pieces [1 x 6,5 cm Gebirgs gun, 1 x old C.73 gun, and 1 x old 15 cm naval gun that could only fire ancient British ammunition (which was obtained from recovered duds!)]. When SMS Möwe was scuttled she supplied 3 x 3,7 cm revolverkanone, and the light cruiser SMS Königsberg had sent ashore 2 x 8,8 cm QF guns with 400 shells she had carried to equip a raider.

In addition, 18 additional kanonen were fielded later: 2 x 6-cm- Bootslandungskanonen brought by SS Rubens in 1915, 10 x 10.5 cm Schnellladekanone salvaged from SMS Konigsberg in 1915, and 4 x 10,5-cm Feld-Haubitze m.98/09 and 2 x 7,5-cm Gebirgs-kanon m.08 brought by SS Marie in 1916.

Hope this helps.

Mark
Great ... still necessary are only research on the artillery in Schutzgebiete Deutsch-Neuguinea, Schutzgebiete Samoa and Pachtgebiete Kiautschou :wink: .
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Chris Dale
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Re: Artillery in the colonies 1914

Post by Chris Dale » 07 Jan 2009 01:32

The Australian Official History ( http://www.awm.gov.au/histories/chapter.asp?volume=10 ) states there were Cannon on New Guinea (but does not state the number or type) at Toma and Tobera (near Bitipaka). They do not report any German artillery being used in action. At the Australian naval base on Garden Island Sydney, there's a German C73 7.85mm gun which was supposedly captured at Rabaul in 1914, or could it be one of the Toma or Tobera guns?

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Chris

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Re: Artillery in the colonies 1914

Post by Gregorus » 07 Jan 2009 22:22

In "Die Polizeitruppe Deutsch-Neuguineas 1887-1914" is information about 2 cannons salute w Rabaul.

...Zwei weitere in Rabaul stehende Geschütze größeren Kalibers waren nur noch zum Salutschießen zu verwenden...
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Re: Artillery in the colonies 1914

Post by Gregorus » 09 Jan 2009 11:07

Is it 87 mm light field gun M1877?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rabaul_gun.JPG

Already I know that this can not be 87 mm light field gun M1877 (because this type field gun were produced in the Russian Empire). So it looks like it is just 9cm. C/1873 Kanone. Sorry for mistake.

http://www.lovettartillery.com/9cm._C_1873_Kanone.html
Last edited by Gregorus on 11 Jan 2009 10:57, edited 4 times in total.
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Chris Dale
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Re: Artillery in the colonies 1914

Post by Chris Dale » 11 Jan 2009 01:26

I hadn't seen that one, thanks for pointing it out to me. I think that means they have two guns there- one a C73 positioned outside, another this m1877 that you've posted. Maybe these are the two guns described as being at Rabaul in your previous post.
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Re: Artillery in the colonies 1914

Post by cj » 11 Jan 2009 07:57

Why weren't they utilized in the defence of the Funkstation at Bitapaka?

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Re: Artillery in the colonies 1914

Post by Gregorus » 11 Jan 2009 10:01

cj wrote:Why weren't they utilized in the defence of the Funkstation at Bitapaka?
Good question. And what happened to 3,7cm Revolverkanone in Friedrich-Wilhelmshafen and on Yap?


Just what it was:

3,7 cm Revolverkanone (Hotchkiss)

http://home.kpnplanet.nl/~w.falck@kpnpl ... psis-1.pdf

or

3,7 cm Schnellfeuerkanone (Maxim) mod. 1895?

http://www.micsem.org/photos/sokehs/11.htm

Image

Image

Chris Sorry for mistake in question 87 mm light field gun M1877 :|
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Re: Artillery in the colonies 1914

Post by CharlesRollinsWare » 14 Jan 2009 03:23

CJ;

It is highly likely that the reason they were not used is that there was no, or at least no reliable ammunition for the guns. In DSWA, there were a number of old guns that were used as "museum" (i.e., show) pieces in official locations. Most had no ammunition or only old, unstable, ammunition as they were outmoded types that had been replaced by modern types both in the active field batteries and in the resserve batteries.

In DOA, there were several pieces of the same types including the fact that all c/73 guns were 7,85 cm not 9 cm.

New Guinea was as far as you could get from Germany, and I bet there was no new "old stock" ammunition being sent there.

Mark
Last edited by CharlesRollinsWare on 15 Jan 2009 00:38, edited 1 time in total.

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