Artillery in the colonies 1914

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Tanzania
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Re: Artillery in the colonies 1914

Post by Tanzania » 15 Mar 2021 07:08

I found this additional photo from the well-known self-made gun, made by the Germans in the Tabora railway
work shop, `discovered´ by the British 1955 in Nakuru, and today in the in the Daressalam National Museum.

Screenshot (19841).png
Geschütz 1 - Kopie.jpg
Cheers Holger
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“Day by day and almost minute by minute the past was brought up to date. . . . All History was a
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Re: Artillery in the colonies 1914

Post by danebrog » 15 Mar 2021 10:57

Gratulation Holger!
This is how our joint research on artillery in DOA began nearly a decade ago:
Was lange währt, wird endlich gut :thumbsup:

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Re: Artillery in the colonies 1914

Post by Chris Dale » 15 Mar 2021 19:04

Good work, Holger. This gun's always been a bit of a mystery...
Cheers
Chris

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Re: Artillery in the colonies 1914

Post by Tanzania » 17 Mar 2021 06:53

Hi Chris and Olli,

I found this and many other background information from `the good old time´
In the East African Rail & Harbour Magazine: http://www.energeticproductions.com/EARandH/index.htm

Really worth to investigate some time to search for historical issues.
Here a big thank you to the operator of the website: McCrow's EAR & H.

Cheers Holger
“Day by day and almost minute by minute the past was brought up to date. . . . All History was a
palimpsest, scraped clean and reinscribed exactly as often as was necessary” – G. ORWELL 1984

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Re: Artillery in the colonies 1914

Post by Chris Dale » 17 Mar 2021 19:56

Thanks for sharing, that does look good!
Cheers
Chris

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Re: Artillery in the colonies 1914

Post by Tanzania » 18 Mar 2021 08:57

Identification of a `captured German gun´ 1916 in GEA
(3,7-cm-Schnell-Ladekanone L/30 Krupp-Gruson Modell 1893)


It is about the identification of an allegedly, captured German gun in 1916 in GEA. The first two
pictures shows the same gun, which was described as `Captured German Pom-Pom´. I think we
agree that it's not a pom-pom (3,7 or 4-cm Maxim machine gun), however, there is a high probability
that the caliber is correct. However, we also know that the commentator has already made mistakes.

(See: Re: A captured German Madsen MG in East Africa?
viewtopic.php?f=73&t=217161&start=30#p2105136)
01_Captured German pom-pom.png
02_Captured German pom-pom.png
Original source: https://www.flickr.com/photos/pennstate ... 810433503/

(Soory; i have to split the second part of ths Question)
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Re: Artillery in the colonies 1914

Post by Tanzania » 18 Mar 2021 09:00

But if it's not a captured German machine- or revolver-cannon, could it be a "3,7-cm L/30 Krupp-
Gruson quick-loading cannon Model 1893
", as the two images below show? What do you all mean?

The improvisational talent of the railway workshops in Tabora and Daressalam was legendary,
even to renovate destroyed and damaged gun-carriages and to build them themselves also new.
The construction on the first two photos looks as if it were a 'self-made-construction'.
03_3,7-cm-SK L30 Krupp-Gruson M93.jpg
04_3,7-cm-SK L30 Krupp-Gruson M93.jpg
Cheers Holger
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Re: Artillery in the colonies 1914

Post by danebrog » 18 Mar 2021 10:32

I think that is very likely:
the 3.7-cm was the most frequently represented with 11 specimens
the dimensions of the barrel and ammunition fit pretty well
The loss of one such cannon at Lukigura on 24 June 1916 is documented.

"Pom-Pom" seems to have been used as a generic term, similar to "Spandau" for the MG

The whole design is interesting: obviously the layout was optimised for point-blank firing (shoulder support), the wheels seem to come from an automobile.
The protective shield seems removable: the two "loops" here were used to pass through a carrying rod. Certainly very practical on marches
The same applies to the obviously improvised "club" on the tail of the gun carriage (not visible in the cropped picture).

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Re: Artillery in the colonies 1914

Post by Hans1906 » 18 Mar 2021 12:07

Holger,

I remember the term "Pom - Pom" for middle caliber semi-automatic guns from that time, but I am not an expert, sorry.
(Typical used on ships around 1880-1910..?)
Looking at the ammo on the photo 2 in the posting #81, some kind of "Shrapnel" ammunition was probably used...

Anyway, thanks for the photos, excellent like always!

Edit: The former term "Pom Pom" was never related to a small-caliber machine gun, I am very sure about that.


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Manchmal ist es noch wichtiger, zu wissen, daß man nichts weiß.

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Re: Artillery in the colonies 1914

Post by Tanzania » 19 Mar 2021 18:15

Hi Olli and Hans,

Thanks for your comments and confirmation about the 3,7-cm SK and the pom-pom.

Nearly 16 years ago, I saw this 3,7-cm HE shell in the Lake Malawi Museum in Mangochi / Malawi.
It should be not a puzzle how this shell was found, if the commentator would know, that this Shell
could only be brought by the German Blockade Runner `RUBENS´ in 1915. As far as I now, the
load was also 3,000 pieces in this calibre and the `MARIE´ didn´t have 3,7-cm ammunition on board.

3,7-cm HE shell.jpg
Lake Malawi Museum 2005.jpg
Chhers Holger
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Re: Artillery in the colonies 1914

Post by Tanzania » 02 Apr 2021 13:51

Regarding the above-mentioned 3,7-cm field gun, German sources mention that this gun knocked-out
a British armoured car with three shots (By 38 failures; - which probably came from the Rubens' wet
cargo), before it was captured. I can remember a photo with this disabled armoured car, but I'm not
sure if it was the Rolls-Royce Armoured Car which is shown below . . .

Knocked out Rolls-Royce Armoured Car in GEA.png
. . .or maybe this unknown Armoured Car
Unknown British armoured car in GEA.png
Cheers Holger
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Re: Artillery in the colonies 1914

Post by danebrog » 02 Apr 2021 21:46

The one in the picture below is a Leyland. Four of these were rebuilt for Sir John Willoughby in private and then drove around the colony as No. 1 (Willoughby's) Armoured Motor Battery.
If my memory does not deceive me, it was one of these vehicles that had its radiator shot out in the incident you describe.
Must have been somewhere in Major Kraut's area of operations.

https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/173 ... s/page/57/

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Re: Artillery in the colonies 1914

Post by Tanzania » 04 Apr 2021 10:05

I found the Photo from the Leyland Armoured Car also on this page, in connection with the
Lukigura position. http://www.kaiserscross.com/188001/442901.html

But, as always with a very limited view of the events of that time and therefore a one-sided
presentation. Neither the strength ratios nor the listed losses of the units are correctly listed.


I found the following remark in your listed link:

Willoughby's No.1 Armoured Motor Battery, a force of some 120/130 men plus their vehicles embarked
from Devonport on 7th February, 1916 aboard HMT ' Huntsgreen ' and disembarked at Kilindini, British
East Africa, on 16th March 1916. It was soon discovered that the very heavy Leyland Armoured Cars
were highly unsuitable for the muddy East African terrain and were prone to sink easily into the mud.
Despite being stripped of some of their armoured bodywork to reduce their weight, problems with
negotiating the East African terrain continued, and as a result of these problems, Willoughby's Armoured
Motor Battery was moved to Egypt later in the year. The 4 Leyland Armoured Cars were subsequently
transferred to Mesopotamia to be converted into Anti-Aircraft lorries, after having had their armour
plating removed.


Must look in the depth of my further external hard disks.
Cheers Holger
“Day by day and almost minute by minute the past was brought up to date. . . . All History was a
palimpsest, scraped clean and reinscribed exactly as often as was necessary” – G. ORWELL 1984

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Re: Artillery in the colonies 1914

Post by danebrog » 04 Apr 2021 11:26

I dare say that it was the so-called "pom pom" shown above that shot up the Leyland armoured car..... :wink:

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Re: Artillery in the colonies 1914

Post by Tanzania » 04 Apr 2021 14:43

danebrog wrote:
04 Apr 2021 11:26
I dare say that it was the so-called "pom pom" shown above that shot up the Leyland armoured car..... :wink:
Any indication for your feeling? I can´t find the bevore mentioned photo in my files.
“Day by day and almost minute by minute the past was brought up to date. . . . All History was a
palimpsest, scraped clean and reinscribed exactly as often as was necessary” – G. ORWELL 1984

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